Supporting women in prison.

[dylexicdementor11]

I’m delighted to see so many mumsnetters are concerned over the welfare of women in prison. However, I thought it might be good to point out that there are many organizations doing incredible work within women’s prisons.
If you have the time to engage with the it would be wonderful if you could support them and find more information about the issues women are actually facing in prison.

Here are some links that may point you in the right direction.

https://www.womeninprison.org.uk/

Thanks for sharing. Some interesting stats
https://www.womeninprison.org.uk/key-facts/

I think the short sentences (12 months) are the reasons we don't see women taking legal action when they have been housed with men. JK Rowling has offered her legal fund to help women take class action, and this may be the only to force the UK government to remove the men from English women's prisons.

Follow NoMinWPrisons on X for actions.

The information you have linked to does not mention men in women’s prisons being an issue for women in prisons. Instead, the link provides an overview of the issues women face. thank you for posting the link. It is very informative.

"The report states that women’s prisons hold 48 transgender individuals – those identifying as a gender different from the legal gender recorded on their birth certificate. Of these, 41 are trans men, who were born female but now identify as male.
The remaining seven include both legally-male trans women, and legally-female prisoners who identify as non-binary. A breakdown is not provided, but a separate table in the report states that there are 44 legally-female trans prisoners (including those identifying as male or non-binary) in the overall prison estate, and none are in male jails – suggesting that the actual number of biologically-male trans women in female jails may be four."

And what is your point?

So based off of the quote you posted the issue of trans men in women’s prisons is minuscule.
And according to the advocacy groups who work on behalf of women in prisons The issues women in prisons or at risk of being imprisoned face have nothing to do with trans women.

I’m assuming that’s your point and that you’re not trying to make an argument for transmen to be shipped off to men’s prisons? 😂

I don't disagree about concerns about transwomen being housed in womens prisons but it really is a small and insufficient issue to the women actually in prison. Before I started my new job last year i used to work with women and men newly out of prison and not one said it was a issue to them.

The Royal Society of Literature do great work within prisons in general. They are well worth supporting. But I'd like to know more about organisations supporting specifically women prisoners, who are often vulnerable. Thanks for posting this, OP.

Thank you for your kind words and interest. Here’s another charity that does important work.

My point with this thread is to highlight the fact that this increased concern over women in prisons is wonderful, but it would be more useful if efforts went to address the issues that women in prisons are actually facing.

As a PP pointed out these issues have nought to do with transgender people.

Instead, for instance, a campaign to make legal aid available to mothers would be much more useful. 😊

https://notbeyondredemption.co.uk/about/

It is possible to be concerned about multiple issues facing women in prison, all at the same time.

Even one man incarcerated with women is too many however.

My point is that it would be useful to the object of your concern (women in prisons) if you aligned your concern with theirs.

For instance, the time mumsnetters have spent writing/reading posts on mumsnet regarding transwomen in women’s prisons could have been spent advocating on behalf of women in prisons.
however, in order to advocate on behalf of women in prisons, you would have to understand the issues they face, and you can only do that by engaging with them or with organizations that work directly with them, hence the links above.

But it is an issue for those women who have been affected - the fact that no one you have met is bothered doesn't mean no one has a problem.

Also, the numbers may be small but it's like football - one trans woman potentially affects hundreds of women.

The issue is pertinent to supporting women in prison in general. Are we doing all we can to support them, or do other issues trump their needs?

Yes I was a prisoner and volunteer for two charities which help female prisoners. No female prisoners are concerned about trans people. They have much bigger issues

A friend of mine is a prison visitor at a women's prison. Every time he talks about it I am shocked at the lack of safeguarding - he gets given keys on arrival and wanders to the room without a guard, he does the visiting without a guard in the room - he's radio trained so at least someone in the room can call for help if required. OK so he's never alone 1 on 1 with a prisoner but sometimes all the volunteers on that day are men.

Ah. So the purpose of your post is to use the plight of women in prison as a reason to tone police women posting on this board? You're not happy with comments about women being compelled to share cells and showers with men claiming to be women? And being punished for misgendering etc which no doubt contributes to why they keep quiet about any voyeurism & indecent exposure that happens?

Got it.

I expect the women currently incarcerated with men are very concerned about it. Don't you?

Sorry, I don’t understand what you’re trying to say at all. Could you please rephrase?

Sorry your comment didn’t seem to relate to my post at all.

It’s really wonderful to see engagement with this thread. I hope that everyone’s concern with women in prisons will lead to advocacy that ends up helping women in prisons.
Here is another useful resource for those of you who are interested in understanding the problems, women face in prison.Happy reading! 😊

https://prisonreformtrust.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/invisible_women3_web.pdf

Try this:

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/female-inmate-threatened-sexual-abuse-transitioning-man-xg35lck28

https://archive.ph/dMSDZ

I’m still not entirely sure what you’re trying to say. You have posted a link to an article that discusses the awful case, what is your point exactly?

If you read what I have written above and have a look at the resources I have linked to you will form a better understanding of the lives of women in prisons in the UK.

I am sure that no one who is worried about incarcerated women would not want to understand their situation better. Hope that helps. 😊

It's not hard to undersand, @dylexicdementor11 . You have posted some (very valuable and interesting ) resources about the many terrible issues faced by imprisoned women in order to cast a critical light on the very strong focus that some women have on one particular issue - the issue of men in women' prisons.

I'm assuming you are yourself actively involved in addressing these many and wider issues faced by female prisoners. Otherwise you would of course be guilty yourself of failing to take these issues seriously in their own right and simply using them as an attempted wrongfooting of people concerned with the presence of men in women's prisons.

The reminder of these wider issues is not without merit, and i read your first link with interest. But it isn't wrong to choose to focus on just one problem within a wider set of problems. If it was, then almost any interest in any campaigning issue could be criticised for failing to give another issue the attention it deserved.

And it's not as if there is a widespread concern for the welfare of women prisoners that has been actively displaced from MN by a focus on the trans issue. On the contrary, women prisoners would probably be ignored altogether, or spoken of with contempt for their needs. This is evidenced by another thread currently active on MN, in which justifications of any attempts to improve the quality of life for prisoners have been met with hostility.

It's so obvious, isn't it? From halfway through the OP I could tell.

They all try so hard to pull off that faux-naif, wide-eyed tone. They're never quite intelligent enough to do it convincingly.

Yes, I agree with you. It is wrong to focus on one issue when there are so many.

Thats is why I posted links to organizations that are dealing with many of the issues that women in prisons are contend with.

And yes, you got me. I am actively involved in campaigns to improve the lives of women in prisons/detention centers. It is difficult work and I always welcome engagement.

My real worry is that while I recognize that much of the discussion that takes place om mumsnet doesn't actually lead to advocacy work as such - I’m still desirous that people who are concerned about the well-being of women in prisons, connect with organizations that advocate on their behalf.

Yes, I agree with you. It is wrong to focus on one issue when there are so many.

I said that it isn't wrong, not that it is wrong.

But regardless of your motivation, which I distrust, it is useful to have these resources linked to on MN.