Is advocating the ridicule and scaring of trans-identifying children deeply concerning?

[Whatchamacallitt]

The full post can be seen here.

The first reaction should always be ridicule, denial of the demand and an adult response so scary, from the home to the school to society in general, that never again will a child make the statement of cult initiation... "I am Trans/Non-binary". That point of declaration is the death of childhood in the most brutal way possible, our response should be equally brutal.

Am I the only one that finds this response extremely disturbing? Trans-identifying children are deeply vulnerable with high rates of abuse, living in care and being autistic or homosexual. How could ridicule and being 'scary' possibly have a positive effect in that situation? This just seems outright abusive to me.

What trans-identifying children need is kindness, empathy and honesty about the immutable nature of their sex. They need an adult they can open up to and discuss the factors that have led to them rejecting their healthy body. Bullying it out of them will never work and only lead to them being more isolated and disturbed.

All I know is that I have a grandson, not a grand"daughter". I have made my peace with it. I suggest you do the same.

Wow. Brutal. And unnecessary.

Am so glad my PiL’s allowed us to deal with this issue with our child, and opted to continue connecting with their granddaughter as they always had. She may not be comfortable with the granddaughter/niece cards [I did suggest not doing this and opting for ‘someone special’ but they are in their 80s now], but they all still have a relationship and love each other. I would not have wanted them dragged into this nor for her to lose the sense of unconditional love she has from them.

A person can never have too many people in their lives to love them, but just one person utterly, coldly rejecting them can decimate a vulnerable person.

There is a world of difference between refusing to accept that someone has changed sex and bullying them and ridiculing them. Which isn’t necessary at all.

My daughters used to happily play and paint my son’s (and husband’s toes). So no I don’t have a problem with it.

My son also played with all his sisters’ dolls, toys and princess dresses. If he’d wanted to wear dresses as an adolescent and call himself a girl then I probably would have had a problem with it. I would’ve ‘policed it’ by telling him he wasn’t a girl. He was a boy who likes dresses. And yes, it probably would’ve included humour because that’s what normal loving families do.

As it is, he’s a big hairy arsed alpha male who has also grown into a real gentleman and has the utmost respect for women.

Hope that meets your approval.

you're right, you're right. Sorry - I shall hide that poster and ignore them from now on.

puberty isn't a neutral phenomena
I don't think the word 'neutral' is applicable to natural developmental processes. If neutral is used in contrast to good and bad in a spectrum of good - neutral - bad, then none of those words are applicable to puberty. Puberty is not good, or bad, or neutral. It just is.

in adulthood that has consequences on a person's mental health
It is clear that some teenagers suffer mental health problems arising from not accepting their puberty. The point of contention is how we as adults react to such teenagers

You are assuming just 'wishing away' personal discomfort is piece of cake.
Just 'wishing away' mental health issues does not work. I don't think anyone is saying that. Usually a great deal of time and therapeutic support is needed.

Whilst of course accepting one's own lot is always an easier path that doesn't mean its always doable.
If by one's 'lot' you mean the sex you were born into, then the choice is either to accept it, or to spiral ever deeper into mental illness. Because sex cannot be changed.
How a person goes about accepting reality is down to them - some might bury their discomfort deep inside, some might take refuge in the fantasy of 'transition', some might challenge gender norms in defiance of society whilst ultimately knowing they cannot change sex.

Social & familial rejection are widely accepted known suicidality risk factors for everyone
Agreed. Any adult response that comes across as rejection or ridicule is damaging.
so in terms of 'passing' this has implications on mental health.
Not sure what you mean here.

And to suggest that particularly trans women who express feminine inclinations would be more socially accepted sans medical intervention is ludicrous.
They would be socially accepted as gender-non-conforming men (caveat - some men would not accept gender-non-conforming men, but most women would).
They are not accepted as women.

This forum alone takes great pleasure in mocking such individuals as deluded freaks, fetishists & perverts.
Such mockery is an appropriate response to men with AGP trying to trample over women and invade their spaces. It is of course not an appropriate response to troubled teenagers.

The irony of people here of all places suggesting trans people should just be themselves as their own gender is breathtaking.
We don't all think alike here. There are some posters that I do take issue with, if they suggest that no man should ever wear feminine clothing.

I suggest trans people should just be themselves as their own sex, and wear what they like, as long as a) the clothes are decent, fit for public places and not overly sexual and b) the person is respectful of the single-sex spaces of the opposite sex, and indeed respectful of everyone.

And to suggest that particularly trans women who express feminine inclinations would be more socially accepted sans medical intervention is ludicrous. This forum alone takes great pleasure in mocking such individuals as deluded freaks, fetishists & perverts.

I disagree. On this website I've never seen anyone who was comfortable with themselves as an effeminate man referred to as any of a freak, fetishist or pervert.

Perhaps some examples would be appropriate?

I'm always very clear on my liking for men who don't follow gender stereotypes!

Much though a lot of mainstream drag has become lazily misogynist, I always liked Ru Paul's quote along the lines of us all being born naked, and everything else is drag. We're all at it, these little cultural performances that would drop away pretty quickly were we to find ourselves alone on a desert island for the rest of our lives.

Perhaps PP is confused about what they've read here. When a man (of any appearance or inner feelings) transgresses boundaries, eg by using women's single sex spaces, he opens himself up to the chance of ridicule, yes. I mean, FFS, sometimes I think what else have women got to use against dangerous men in this structurally misogynist society?! It's certainly very punishing to attempt to use the law (hence why so many women don't report).

If any man claims that adopting superficially feminine visual attributes somehow negates the requirement for safeguarding then he's either abusive himself or an enabler of abuse. That man's opinions on gender stereotypes might be spoken of less than reverentially here on a feminist forum, big wow.

Agree with everyone who states that Wall's comments are bullying and unnecessary. I see the usual suspects have swerved the discussion away from children to their usual word salad irrelevancies.

Thie reality is that when parents get caught up in ideology over effective parenting, children can be abused. If you tell a toddler that he's really the opposite sex, a life can be literally ruined.

This is a distressing read, made more so because a respected clinician (Dame Hilary Cass) used this case as an argument for an 11 year old needing puberty blockers. She completely ignored the unforgivable abuse of him as a 2 year old toddler told he was really a girl, that resulted in him at age 11, ending up locked in his bedroom unable to come out:
https://www.transgendertrend.com/abuse-two-and-a-half-year-old-child/

This is what can happen to children when parents buy into GI ideology

@MrsOvertonsWindow sadly he replied to my comment and simply doubled down. Utterly lacking in empathy and only makes the discourse harder to navigate when you have people in the TRA side saying we are bigots and bullies, and his tweet is the evidence of it.

Your problem is that you think being called a "bully" by these people is a negative thing. If they call you a "bigot", then you should wear it as a badge of honour - it is proof that you are on the right side of this fight. Tell them, "if believing in the permanency of your sex makes me a bigot, then I am a proud bigot!" and watch their brains explode!

Yes, I'm in my 40s. I just don't like ageism or prejudice or the sneery way its used to stir up intergenerational animus.

Quite.

Some men are fetishists. That's simple fact, it's not an insult. And 'transvestic fetishism' is discussed in the ICD, as something that is to be excluded before making a diagnosis of 'gender incongruence'.

However, this poster has included the term alongside 'freak' and 'pervert', both of which are loaded and derogatory.

He doubled down? Well, no more to be said really.

Except it's not just 'these people' saying that ridiculing and scaring children is bullying. It's ordinary, reasonable, GC people who are just as aghast. It has nothing to do with believing people can change sex, which no one has advocated here. It's about not being cruel and damaging an already vulnerable child.

I agree. I'm about as GC as they come, and the idea of trying to teach anyone - adults or children - anything by ridicule, threat or fear is anathema.