Is advocating the ridicule and scaring of trans-identifying children deeply concerning?

[Whatchamacallitt]

The full post can be seen here.

The first reaction should always be ridicule, denial of the demand and an adult response so scary, from the home to the school to society in general, that never again will a child make the statement of cult initiation... "I am Trans/Non-binary". That point of declaration is the death of childhood in the most brutal way possible, our response should be equally brutal.

Am I the only one that finds this response extremely disturbing? Trans-identifying children are deeply vulnerable with high rates of abuse, living in care and being autistic or homosexual. How could ridicule and being 'scary' possibly have a positive effect in that situation? This just seems outright abusive to me.

What trans-identifying children need is kindness, empathy and honesty about the immutable nature of their sex. They need an adult they can open up to and discuss the factors that have led to them rejecting their healthy body. Bullying it out of them will never work and only lead to them being more isolated and disturbed.

I agree but the problem lies in excluding all other possibilities that influence identity formation including innate inclinations that experts in the field acknowledge.

Ho does "innate inclination" change physical sex?

i assume this was posted so that Bails could turn up and say it's fine to offer children medical. 'Treatment' that will alter their body and fertility permanently because trans and therefore all normal rules around safeguarding and to no harm don't apply

it's all so embarrassingly obvious

There's certainly a pattern with this kind of threads, even when they get started.

Has he?

I read the first paragraph as being a call to react that way to an ideology rather than calling for children to be treated that way.

I then read the rest of the tweet as describing treating children with honesty about identities and expectations. I don’t read any call for abusing children in the remaining text unless you consider being honest about their future outcomes as being abusive.

Don't be so blinded by your beliefs that you support abusers. Be better than that. Sometimes you got to let that bias go and see something for what it is. The man was clear in what he is saying. If you agree that children should be treated that way, just say it. Don't tey and pretend he isnt saying that but you agree with what he's saying.

@Helleofabore

I understand what you mean, and yes he does make some good points further in the tweet, but I cannot see that first paragraph as anything but an appeal to emotional and psychological violence - against children! I won't lie: my first reaction was, "Oh, a man calling for violence, how original."

Ridicule and instillation of fear should never be the first reactions to a difficult situation with a child. They have no educational value. They only serve to break the child's will and spirit, not to mention their trust in this particular adult, if not adults as a rule.

Yes, I agree that "therapy should have greater focus on honesty about outcomes for those children", absolutely! But ridicule and fear are not necessary in this process.

There's plenty wrong because puberty isn't a neutral phenomena that can be wound back in adulthood that has consequences on a person's mental health. You are assuming just 'wishing away' personal discomfort is piece of cake. Whilst of course accepting one's own lot is always an easier path that doesn't mean its always doable. If it were you would have a lot more satisfied people in the general population. Trans people are no different.

Social & familial rejection are widely accepted known suicidality risk factors for everyone so in terms of 'passing' this has implications on mental health. And to suggest that particularly trans women who express feminine inclinations would be more socially accepted sans medical intervention is ludicrous. This forum alone takes great pleasure in mocking such individuals as deluded freaks, fetishists & perverts. The irony of people here of all places suggesting trans people should just be themselves as their own gender is breathtaking.

I do think that first paragraph is appallingly worded and open to misinterpretation.

I reckon that someone will ask him to clarify today.

I remember my children (and their friends) before they went through puberty and there is no way I would want them to have to face adult life without having undergone the brain maturation process that puberty brings alongside the maturation of the rest of the body. It's fucking insane to think any child would be better of avoiding puberty. There must be better ways to deal with body dysphoria than arresting kids in a pre-pubescent state.

Yes, that tweet is horrible.

It's always wrong to ridicule a child or young person. I do find the idea of a man thinking he can become a woman or vice versa ridiculous - but if your child comes to you with thoughts like this then mockery is playing into the hands of the online spaces where they are told that their parents are nasty bigots who hate them. It can be devastating at that age, especially if they were worried about telling you.

Hold the line firmly - changing sex is impossible, but you can have any interests, personality, clothes, hairstyle etc as the sex that you are. But do it with compassion because these feelings, however absurd, are real to the young person and the last thing you want is to drive them away. Explore the issue from a realist perspective instead of trying to scare them and shut down discussion.

I don’t consider the ‘man was clear’ at all. I think you should heed your own advice.

Bailey. Women went through all of this 75 years ago - we went through the ridicule and abuse so that we could wear trousers.

Men can do the same if they want to wear dresses. In plenty of cultures, men wear these kinds of garment - the number of tubes your legs go down isn't something innate to humanity, it's cultural, and can be changed - just as women did.

And yes, I'm going to continue to ridicule perverts and fetishists until they keep their perversions and fetishes in private. There is a world of difference between a man who's put together a fashion he enjoys which happens to be more feminine (I did grow up in the 80s, so this I know) vs. a man putting on a stereotyped imitation of the womanhood that turns him on.

Gillick competence was developed to permit intellectually and emotionally capable teenage girls to access easily reversible birth control without their parents’ knowledge. There are serious moral and legal doubts on whether this should also apply to permanent and untested treatments.

I don’t think mockery would help. @Seethlaw has absolutely hit the nail on the head. This is a man advocating violence.

And, as an aside, isn’t it surprising that on this thread we have several chiding ploppers giving it their all. On the now 7 threads on the Tempest Employment Tribunal where trans identifying men ruthlessly bullied a civil service network expressing their entirely legal views courteously they are nowhere to be seen (not complaining about that).

This is back again to the idea that medical treatment needs to do the least harm.

Contraception vs. pregnancy - no-brainer - of course contraception is safer than pregnancy.

HRT vs. menopause - more nuanced, lots of things to balance, answer is different for each woman.

PBs vs Puberty - only justified by saying that people will kill themselves if they don't have them. That's how damaging PBs are, that the only way they can be justified is by comparing them to death. That alone should be a warning sign.

(and yes, they can also be used for precocious puberty - but by my understanding that rarely happens these days, exactly because the PBs themselves are so dangerous, so if they can find any other way to deal with the precocious puberty, they do)

Yep. That did become clear!

The evidence is mounting across the world to the contrary.

This will become outlawed eventually.

There is no good reasoning to make a child’s body ill on the basis of fantasy/ a lie and the whims and fantasies of adults.

lets just remind ourselves that a fetish site has sexualised fantasy stories of doctors castrating minors and injecting them with PBs in order to keep their bodies as child like as possible.

In fact, one whistleblower clinician at the Tavistock had firm reason to believer that keeping a child pre pubescent for the adult’s enjoyment was the main aim for referral and treatment.

One judge’s judgment can be very turned by another when scientific and safeguarding evidence is presented.

fws was based on both scientific and safeguarding evidence.

Gillick competence was developed to permit intellectually and emotionally capable teenage girls to access easily reversible birth control without their parents’ knowledge. There are serious moral and legal doubts on whether this should also apply to permanent and untested treatments.

The case(s) that motivated Gillick are irrelevant to whether an individual minor can be considered legally competent or not.

There are serious moral and legal doubts on whether this should also apply to permanent and untested treatments.

The Cass systemic review determined PB trials should go ahead. Other countries that conducted systematic reviews also have not out lawed gender affirming care to minors. At minimum they have restricted it to patients who are more likely to benefit long term.

You do realise ridiculing only entrenches the need to 'pass' right? Oh wait……

No body is suggesting it does. 'Woman' & 'man' are simply sociological verbal shortcuts for identifying with masculinity & femininity.

Pre-pubescence = “oh you’re a tiger? That’s scary, don’t bite me ha ha”

Adolescent and beyond = humouring with gentle piss taking “…love that nail varnish son.”

I haven’t read the article but coming from a working class background I do know how (gentle) piss taking and mockery can keep kids on an even keel. ‘Grounded’ as the youth say.

I do think it’s incumbent on adults to hold the perspective here. No one can change sex. No adult should be selling that delusion to children.

As opposed to ageist bigot ranting?

Btw, he is far, far too young to be a 'boomer'.

'Boomer' isn't ageist because it's also a state of mind.

Only in your fantasy world.

From the link on his X bio he is a youngish random bloke telling "mums and grandmums" what to think and do.