What is a “good experience” in a women’s toilet?

[MyAmpleSheep]

From Reddit.

List your good experiences of using single sex spaces of your gender?

Cheer up everyone’s day by listing your good experiences of using single sex spaces.
Helping fix a woman bra, giving a woman a pad, receiving compliments from women…

Can GI supporting people see why examples of a “good experience” for a trans-identifying man in a women’s toilet being - (first) to play with a woman’s underwear and (second) get involved in her menstruation - is profoundly unhelpful?

Wouldn’t a “good experience” simply be to use the facilities and leave?

How does this “cheer up everyone’s day״?

The loathing that is apparent when someone describing what their needs are in regards to single sex toilets is somehow being twisted into making toilets “sacred palaces of femininity” does show a lean towards misogyny to defend male people accessing female single sex provisions.

Since when has recognising that female people have unique needs in toilet usage been elevating toilets to “sacred palaces of femininity”?

I think @KittiesInsanepretty much nails it.

The only social interaction I can recall would be a bit of mild tutting over the length of the queue.

The anger at women daring to say no.

It's not seen as rational for women to want privacy, dignity, safety and respect (words thrown around like confetti for men with gender identities)

It's not seen as reasonable or even acceptable. Even in the light of so many horrible incidents of how men behave in those spaces towards women, and the knowledge of excluding women. And the law saying no. It's still seen as rage inducing that a woman merely says, on an anonymous website, that she won't provide herself submissively to be used, and agrees with the law.

These people have one hell of a problem with women, they really do. Among other problems. I often wonder how these people feel about marital rape having been banned, because it's much the same thing: women are there for the purpose of men, and to meet their 'needs', and have no business letting their own wishes and feelings get in the way of men using them.

It's revolting.

Walking in with no pee on the seat, or massive amounts of toilet roll in the loo. What is this obsession that we are all in there sharing pads, fixing underwear and sharing compliments……..the last I did when I was about 18 and hammered in a club toilet, the first two absolutely never as there are vending machines for sanitary items, and your underwear is your own business

I've never forgotten Yaniv's selfies of being joyfully in a women's loo with actual women in the room with him, and his social media posts about hanging around hoping that a little girl would ask him for help to insert a tampon. I mean how big do the red flags have to be ffs?

Was he also the one with the SM posts about hoping to see little girls walking about in the toilets naked from the waist down so he could see the tampon strings? Porn interest fairly plain there, and a whole lot of fantasy.

What about the one who hung around with lots of tampons in case a woman asked for one? No prizes for guessing what he was visualising.

Wasn't it M&S where there were the social media posts of the various blokes talking about how they wanked on the floor of the women's cubicles in the changing rooms hoping that a woman would walk on it in her bare feet? And wanking on lingerie and putting it back on the pegs hoping a woman would try it on? And on toilet paper, hoping a woman would use it? Rape fantasies gone completely berserk there, along with any grip on social appropriacy and self control.

The chaps who had that whole summer of sharing selfies of themselves in the women's toilets with various weapons, I remember the machete and the sword, 'your view in my mentions if you're a woman who does not want to submit to me and get her knickers down on the other side of a thin door while I enjoy it terf' - the machete, ffs. Who actually visualises attacking a woman with a machete? Crisis team urgently needed there.

The video shared some months back of women trying to deal with a shouting man in a skirt who was openly wanking in a cubicle and telling them he had rights and they couldn't stop him?

The social media posts on that forum about waiting to dive into a cubicle as soon as a woman exited, to rummage in a bin and hopefully find a wet, warm tampon to shove up their bums for thrills and excitement?

Wtf would any sane woman be willing to engage with this level of disturbed sexual mania and low level (ready to escalate) sex offending?

Well, I was going to say those lovely loos you get in places like Harvey Nichols where there’s sofas and perfume but on the basis of this thread I’d just settle for “clean and no men”.

Once, in all my many years, did a woman ask for a tampon - she came out of the cubicle all flustered and was clearly embarrassed to ask. A couple of us offered our spares and we all went about our day. But it’s happened ONCE.

And if in a disaster where you found yourself caught without san pro, and you had to ask that hideously embarrassing question, would you really go and ask a man if he had a spare tampon?

Nobody would. Nobody. A man carrying and offering san pro is demonstrating loud and clear that he has problems.

Apparently, it is just porn channel stuff and not happening in real life when male people with transgender identities masturbate in female single sex provisions.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5473470-5473470-trans-woman-gym-goer-caught-masturbating-in-womens-changing-room

Does anyone else remember the account of the women in the UK who recounted how she shared a women’s shelter room with a male who said he was female, who masturbated of a night time?

It also doesn’t matter if the male person is masturbating right at that moment if they are getting sexual arousal or stimulation of any kind from being in that situation.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4774232-suing-the-sorority-that-accepted-a-transgender-woman

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4281706-pushback-at-wi-spa-in-los-angeles

And remember that twitter exchange where male people with transgender identities who were consideres social influencers at the time were discussing female people’s toilet sounds and mocking them?

I would just never EVER accept sanpro from a trans-identified man. I’d improvise, go without, do a desperate dash to the nearest shop, anything but accept that <shudder>

I once stopped a woman leaving a toilet who had tucked the back of her skirt in her knickers. She was too mortified to say thank you.

I always try to make sure the end of the bog roll is visible for the next user, having, in cumulation, wasted hours of my life searching for the damn thing.

Other than that a clean seat, a flush and lock that works and a toilet roll dispenser that actually has toilet roll.

….and the one filming himself licking the toilet seat 🤢

Yes.

and the numerous ones filming themselves in the power move of defying laws, policies and women saying they needed a provision to exclude those people filming them using the provision.

Including elected members of government filming celebratory videos of being in a provision they are excluded from, so that female users of that facility will not feel safe to use it.

But … apparently… it is just porn videos.

The dismissal doesn’t even have even a skerrick of credibility in the face of self- published fuckwittery from a group of male people who cannot accept that they are excluded on the basis that they are male.

But I am more than happy to post links if posters wish to continue denying there is legitimate issues. We have a huge thread on MN with plenty of evidence to support why those male people should be excluded, there are websites collating the evidence and plenty self published.

Ok well clearly what we need here is 2 kinds of ladies’ toilets, one for the women who don’t mind sharing with men and having them fiddle with their bra strap and be all girly etc, and one for the terfy kind who actually don’t want any men in there at all (and the ones who cannot be around men) and just want to use the loo in peace thank you. Everyone’s happy!
Sorted 🥸

We could even call them "women's" and "mixed sex" (let's not fuck around with the euphemistic "gender neutral").

Ah but some TW don't want to go in the mixed sex/ gender neutral.

A toilet without women in it is just a room.

My breakfast just reappeared 🤮

The thing about sharing sanpro with a stranger is creepy. When Dylan Mulvaney talked about offering girls tampons I thought there should be a public service announcement about NOT putting something of unknown provenance next to delicate body tissue.

Good experience? Clean, no queue, cubicles big enough, strong lock, door gap for safety, hook for a bag, clean, sufficient paper. Washing station clean, soap, paper towels. Handy if there's a mirror somewhere, my hair is very fine and inclined to be messy. Bonus if there's ventilation to outdoors, Massive bonus if there's no one else using it.

Oh, and did I mention clean?

Already removed:

https://archive.ph/DaI8a

And to achieve 'clean', which includes emptying the towel bins regularly, the inspect-and-react schedule needs to be hourly in busy places.

God, yes! A hook for a bag. Being able to get in and have enough room to easily close the door behind you is also nice.

I thought that entire sub plot was a fail.

Keeley is portrayed as in control, independent and savvy for the first two series when she is in relationships with men, but then has a personality transplant and puts ups with abusive behaviour when she starts a relationship with a woman.

It's as though they couldn't think what to do with the character, and I agree that the tampon scene was just clueless.

There was also something uncomfortable after the tampon scene - when they come out of the toilet and clock each other and get all coy. Total male fantasy plus possible implied sexual thrill / turn on / sexy connection from the tampon situation which only a male writer could come up with.

Also it’s always tampons isn’t it? Never massive maxi pads with wings? Not as ‘sexy’…?

Most women on this thread are describing their toilet experiences as quite spare: they want to get in and out as quickly as possible and speak to no-one in the process - the opposite of the trans person in the OP, basically. You’re suggesting that women have unique needs (true) but feel the phrase “sacred palaces of femininity” is misogynistic. Would that be correct?

I remember you writing all manner of activities women do in toilets (adjusting clothing, cleaning up vomit, washing off blood, pumping breastmilk, the list is endless really) in defence of single-sex spaces. That does sound to me rather like the defence of a sacred place of femininity.

self- published fuckwittery from a group of male people who cannot accept that they are excluded on the basis that they are male.

Openly performing extreme prejudice and dominance towards women. Proudly excluding women who have been traumatised, who are of minority faiths and cultures, who have disabilities, in particular amongst others. Proud of this. 'You can't come in here, I've peed on this territory for men'.

Proudly racist, xenophobic and religiously intolerant, ableist and misogynist, against inclusion and diversity, or social justice.

If someone lies about having toilet experiences, they might lie about other things too, such as having gender dysphoria or truly really feeling like a member of the opposite sex.

Your post hence undermines the stance that men should be allowed into women's toilets based on professed beliefs.