What is a “good experience” in a women’s toilet?

[MyAmpleSheep]

From Reddit.

List your good experiences of using single sex spaces of your gender?

Cheer up everyone’s day by listing your good experiences of using single sex spaces.
Helping fix a woman bra, giving a woman a pad, receiving compliments from women…

Can GI supporting people see why examples of a “good experience” for a trans-identifying man in a women’s toilet being - (first) to play with a woman’s underwear and (second) get involved in her menstruation - is profoundly unhelpful?

Wouldn’t a “good experience” simply be to use the facilities and leave?

How does this “cheer up everyone’s day״?

I used the ladies loo in waterloo station yesterday. there was a sticker on the back of the door in the ridiculous baby blue and baby pink 'trans' colours that said "we've been here the whole time"

creepy as fuck. weird, territory marking, boundary pushing, stalkery and fetishy.

so a toilet that some role playing man hasn't put his 'I don't care what you want' stickers all over would be high on my list of good toilet experiences

Here we go again with Things That Have Never Happened between real women, particularly strangers. Fixing each other's bras and giving each other sanitary pads. WTF.

"Helping fix a woman [sic] bra" (as opposed to a "man bra" I suppose) - just how does that come about. You see a woman struggling to adjust her straps or something, and offer to help? No fucking way. (Incidentally I had to adjust my bra straps today while I was out, as they kept slipping, but I did it where absolutely no one could see me. I wouldn't do it by the sinks in the loos.)

Same with sanitary pads/tampons/whatever. If you're caught short you see if there's a machine, or even free ones. If not you use extra loo roll and go and find a shop. You do not ask some stranger if she has any to give you. I've never asked this, I've never been asked this, and I've never seen it happen (once in my life, and only once, I've asked a friend). The idea that I might ask A MAN lurking in the women's toilets if he had any is just ludicrous. Or perhaps he doesn't wait to be asked, he just goes round handing them out. Totally creepy and I'd refuse.

As for compliments - happens occasionally, but pretty rare.

I was looking at that thread before you posted about it @MyAmpleSheep . One of the earliest responses was a TIF complaining that 'trans men' were being ignored as usual. Whether the OP was a troll or not, a lot of TIFs continue to be unhappy at they way TIMs treat them, or ignore them. Proof beyond doubt that TIMs continue to be men and TIFs continue to be women, whatever they do with their presentation and bodies.

Turn that mirror around, mate.

Not having someone spend ages messing with their make-up/hair so you can't wash your hands.
Not having to wait to use the toilet because someone is on their phone-do that where people aren't crossing their legs!
Security to protect teenagers/vulnerable people from being bullied, like when a teenage girl was attacked by other girls in her class. Their reason? Nothing, really.
Clean, and enough toilet paper and handwash.

Why is it disgusting?

A man scripted a scene with the “do you have a tampon I’ve come on early (to the next stall)” as a way to introduce two characters who go on to have a lesbian relationship.

Are you suggesting it’s disgusting to notice that?

there are a million ways to introduce two women to each other. It’s just weird that a male script writer thinks to do it over menstrual products. In a public toilet.

I really enjoy it when I sit down and don’t have to have sit on half a sanitary bin because fucking male bathroom designers think they can just shove one in right next to the loo with no thought for those of us with more than a size 6 arse and thighs. And I also have a good experience when my knees don’t bang the door when I’m sitting, I’m tall with long legs so in cramped cubicles I sometimes have to contort just to get anywhere near sitting. And it’s the best ever when I’m not wrangling the kids, lugging bags or holding up long dresses and coats that I don’t want trailing on the dirty floor, and also juggling my sanitary pad changing at the same time. What bliss.

Also never ever have I adjusted a woman’s BRA in the toilets, wtf? I have told a woman her label was sticking out of her top but that’s not exclusively for toilets.

Last year a woman in a railway station toilet asked me for help with her dress zip. She was travelling home from an event with her husband, and couldn't very well invite him into the bogs.

It was the first time I've ever been asked for this kind of help, and I'm much the same age as you

Said the poster who also posted "I have let various girls cop a feel of my fake tits".

I am 60 and have used many women's toilets in my lifetime.
Only once have I ever been asked if I had a spare tampon...
...it was by a transwomen (I swear to god this is the truth!!)
EEEWW - just creepy and gross.

I just want a clean, private place to pee...

That’s hilarious. And mortifying.

Does the hyperbolic PP not notice all the photos / videos doing the rounds on social media of TW proudly using the women's toilets? With some of them adding threats about what they'd like to do to terfs?

No, its not all TW. But it's some, and that's enough.

Maybe these were "the wrong kind of TW"?

Also lol at the criticism of ignoring facts - from someone who thinks men can be women....

To paraphrase, "I'd rather be a "bigot" than a fucking liar"

A toilet that is guaranteed to be Single sex

Firstly not having to queue to get in. On entering finding floors that are clean, dry and not covered in toilet paper. A cubicle that has room to shut the door without having to lean against the bowl. A coat hook on the door for my bag and jacket. An easy to use working lock. A supply of decent toilet roll. A clean toilet. A neutral smell. I like those no touch flush systems. A decent sink area with soap and water and papertowels or dryer. Not much to ask really. I don't need 'girly' chit chat, swapping makeup, being asked for tampons. Admiring miniskirt or fake tit's.

Some of my favourites:

• ?York railway station in the 1970s where there was a Ladies' Waiting Room with a huge, round, highly polished Victorian table in it (& loos off the waiting room)
• the First Class Lounge at Heathrow where you walked past a wall of water to get to the corridor to the loos & there were gorgeous iridescent mosaic tiles (which I was contemplating for my own bathroom, so it was great to see them in situ)
• various Victorian art galleries etc which had original & highly decorative ceramic tiles

A hook for my bag. I always think in loos that don’t have them “this must have been designed by a man”.

Also, no men.

I've come back to this thread because I realised I was thinking too small and limiting myself.

My Good Toilet Experience would be:

I arrive by limo jetpack. As I walk through the door, my coat and bags are taken to be valeted and a light silk robe draped over me. I'm handed a light floral sparking water while my face is spritzed. There's obscure balkan 60s jazz playing quietly. Each cubicle is individually themed with scents designed for different moods.

After a quick pee I wash my hands, and a manicurist dries them on a fresh linen cloth and gives me a mini nail buff while a focus group of an MIT Professor, Bloomberg markets analyst and a political strategist chat with me.

I pick up the numbers to a Swiss bank account, grab a small handful of perfect quality natural gemstones, and leave through a door that is a portal to anywhere in the world I want to go to.

Helping fix a woman bra, giving a woman a pad, receiving compliments from women…

What fresh hell is this? Clearly living on fantasy island. No woman is going to let a man in a frock fix her bra. Unless she's plastered. In which case he's taken advantage of her lack of sobriety.

My good experiences are...no queue, no piss on the seat, toilet doesn't smell too whiffy, plenty of loo roll.

Each to their own I guess. 🙄

Not encountering a blocked toilet, an overflowing bin or a drunk homeless woman demanding I give her the £5 in my purse instead of coins, I suppose.

Most public toilets are horrible places, often isolated and with terrible facilities. Often with one locked cubicle occupied by someone finding a vein, when I was a teenager.

The idea they're in any way safe, let alone places where memories are made, is profoundly ridiculous. The memory I most associate with public toilets is leaving with a load of cheap tissue stuffed in my knickers, because I don't go by choice. Oh and getting beaten up there in school by snobby girls who'd call you a boy, because girls are vicious.

The idea trans women (who have used them forever) going for a quick piss could affect that experience is deeply silly. As a gnc cis woman, it's never been them I feared. It's other cis women and violent cis men (who can hide there easily and wait for you to be alone).

Female toilets are places you get dragged into to be hurt, not safe spaces at all - some of us learned that young. Gay girls were too scared to use toilets when I was at school, for precisely this reason.

Transphobic myths about tw getting off on going there are largely based on weird porn. Hypersexualising minorities, and sexualising everything they do, is such a tired old trope.

Anyway, yeah, horrific places. They need urgent improving and to be made actually safe, not treated like they were sacred palaces of femininity before the current trans panic.

All the trans panic has done is made me more scared to go in one, which is so helpful during menopause. All the men fixated on trans people using them can seriously get lost and address their own behaviour.

Managing to complete the 'paper work' just as the last sheet tears of the roll. 👍☺️

As a gnc cis woman

You’re both gender nonconforming and cisgender? Does that make you gender fluid?

“The idea trans women (who have used them forever) going for a quick piss could affect that experience is deeply silly. As a gnc cis woman, it's never been them I feared. It's other cis women and violent cis men (who can hide there easily and wait for you to be alone).”

Readers note:

There is no more risk of being attacked by a female person than a male person (meaning a male person of any gender identity) in a publicly accessible female single sex toilet.

And there is no evidence that a male person with a transgender identity is any less risk of causing harm to female people when looking at the general male population of the UK. There is also plenty of anecdotal evidence that male people with transgender identities do more in female single sex toilets than “going for a quick piss”.

This highlighted statement though follows the much seen activist tactic though of falsely significantly downplaying the risk of harms from male people with transgender identities using female single sex provisions while then distracting with catastrophising generalisations about female people’s behaviour.

There is no doubt that there are female people who will cause harm to other female people in publicly accessible toilets. This statement though, falsely increases that risk to being as high as the risk of being harmed by a male person. Also, if a female person attacks another female person, that the victim is at less risk of serious injury in general than if it was a male person of any gender identity who was the attacker.

It is a false representation to claim that male people with transgender identities pose less risk of harm to female single sex provision users than the general female population. It is misinformation. And this time, it is packed full of emotional reasoning aimed to convince others that the misinformation is accurate, when it is, of course, not accurate at all.

The duplicity and bad faith of TRAs demanding access to men who claim to be women for "safety" or because "they aren't a danger" is obvious when one remembers that these things are true of many men yet they only make these emotional pleas on behalf of that small subset of men who claim to be women.

In other words, thse are not in fact the reasons MWCTBW want access to female spaces, they are the excuses being made for an access they had already decided they want.

I have very low standards for toilets - if it is dry and there is toilet paper I'm happy. Squat or sitting, doesn't matter. Oh but no UK toilets ever meet my standards because there must be a bidet spray.