What is a “good experience” in a women’s toilet?

[MyAmpleSheep]

From Reddit.

List your good experiences of using single sex spaces of your gender?

Cheer up everyone’s day by listing your good experiences of using single sex spaces.
Helping fix a woman bra, giving a woman a pad, receiving compliments from women…

Can GI supporting people see why examples of a “good experience” for a trans-identifying man in a women’s toilet being - (first) to play with a woman’s underwear and (second) get involved in her menstruation - is profoundly unhelpful?

Wouldn’t a “good experience” simply be to use the facilities and leave?

How does this “cheer up everyone’s day״?

What I take from the thread is that the Trans community has a lot of work to do to convince people skeptical as to their intentions.

Your attitude of “nothing to see here” reinforces that.

And yet the responses were overwhelmingly along the lines of "For me a good experience in the toilet is when no one harasses me" which is obviously very different tone and content from the OP.

Not having to queue.

Plenty of loo roll.

Clean.

I just want a clean loo, with toilet paper and a lock that works.

I’d run a mile if another woman offered any of those things!

Is anyone else reminded of Yaniv?

This happened to me in (what is now called) year six at primary school - no camera because smart phones hadn't been invented, but a boy from my class peering over the top of the cubicle! He'd climbed up on a wall outside to look in and his face suddenly appeared grinning like a creep in training (no special needs, I'm aware of him because he still lives where I grew up and friends still see him about - he has a public facing professional career now...) - old style playground toilet block at break time.

I screamed, he leered for a second then disappeared, I told my best friends and we went and yelled at him and he said he was only mucking about or something similarly predictable, but we never thought to tell a teacher nor did it cross my mind to tell my parents because it was embarrassing (early 1980s).

So now you're taking the line that it's trans people's fault if trolls post to their community and if people who are already primed to think the worst of them fall for it? Could you victim-blame any harder than that?

They sure did. I did scan the post before it was removed and some of them talked about women helping them untwist their dress straps and having lots of "affirming" girly chats in the loos.

Is it a challenge you’re laying @Zoonosis to find similar posts which are uncontroversial and not “obvious trolls” on Reddit or other TRA echo chambers? Because I bet folding money that women here can find them if you want.

As long as it’s not obviously false, I’m entitled to react to the threats and danger it presents without having to feel guilty about it.

This is work for the trans community to get to grips with.

No queue.

i did once go to a Loo of the year at a pub when we took my husbands grandma out. It was decorated with jokes and silly things (like the singing fish from the nineties) and apparently it was so clean you could eat you dinner off the floor. The owner had as a press stunt.

It was obviously fake though. And you've continued to treat it as though it was real even now it has been pointed out to you it was fake.

This isn't trans people's fault. This is you. Your opinions. Your beliefs. Formed based on prejudice not on fact. You are doing this and it is no one else's fault.

I was idly browsing and rolling my eyes and wincing at this thread after reading the Andy Burnham webchat posts when I saw the “you do realise Mumsnet is using this as propaganda” post.

if they’re a know troll, how are they still allowed to to post? I’d be banned after my first post. It’s a support page for trans people, as you told me.

So is the poster trans or not?

Do they genuinely get delight from sharing period products and playing with strangers’ bras?

No?

Are you quite sure?

You actually can’t say for sure, can you? Because you’re not sure this isn’t how some trans people think and behave.

I certainly don’t think it was obviously fake. Nor did any of the other people in your community who responded to it in good faith.

From someone who believes men when they say they are women!

Listen to yourself!

I remember the first challenge I read to the thread was distinctly weak, not “you’re a troll” more like, “stop saying these things because Mumsnet is watching”

100% this, @KittiesInsane.

Definitely not the AGP fantasy of what happens in the Ladies!

Best ever was a posh one in USA. Even had sofas, separate toilet , basin area and toilet restroom area. Back home, happy if it’s clean. Me and toddler can both fit in and there is a hook on t(e door for my bag

These are mine too.

I agree with all of this.

Though I was once asked if I had a tampon, at a gig in Berlin. I actually had a box I'd bought in Boots at Manchester Airport in my bag, so that was lucky! It's only happened that once, however.

Men cannot be women is a fact and reality.

It's not prejudice or bigotry to know this. And I will never, ever be ashamed of stating it.

And we would be a lot less suspicious if these men stopped acting like complete dicks.

I'm so happy for you. Really.

After all the times you have had to look the other way when a trans identifying man behaves really really really badly - I mean sometimes even like police arrest prison badly - finally a thread where you can get stuck in with righteous indignation because There Was A Troll on The Trans Subreddit. What a relief!

Have a lovely weekend!