Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 4

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549122-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-3

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

And once we deleted all the replies from people who didn’t agree with me, it was unanimous.

ED CSRF were leaned on
AL I'm asking you if they agreed or not in their letter
ED their response showed in some places they didn't understand

Dunn seems unable to be able to get past that disagreement with her views simply means that they ( who disagre) don't really understand. She cannot comtemplate or tolerate any disagreemnt as being valid at all

Did Tinkerbell join the race group too? I suppose he has a race and he might breastfeed or have a hot flush.

Nah he was just busy bodying around to locate offense

No it’s worse than that. If you’re a good person it’s because you don’t understand. If you’re a bad person, it’s because you’re a genocidal bigot.

This Xamination is fascinating - blocking up the escape holes one by one to reduce the claim to the core element - DEFRA "harassment" is just they failed to shut down SEEN as we asked

AL so SEEN said that they didn't want to cause upset, but this was all about this person's lived experience. You're all about lived experience, surely he can speak about his lived experience?

No, that's not allowed!

Doesn't mention trans people, but included?
ED yes
J that's a lot of documents AL, are we going to look at all of them
AL yes, Judge I am deliberately taking the witness to all of them.
ED have I misheard page number, could you repeat
AL 2061

My note: go Alex 🎉

ED I think i found it, not actually numbered, is it respect at work
AL no, it's Tamara Finkelstein video announcing and supporting trans awareness week,
ED it appears to be yes
AL says DEFRA wants trans staff to comfortable and supported at work.
ED yes
AL I've taken to you a number of docs that demonstrate that your assertion that trans staff are not supported at work
ED they don't follow those policies, they talk over trans people, they ignore them, they allow harassment to go on
AL support does not mean that any time at trans person complains they are unsupported
ED we are asking them to stop discussing this at work, it is distressing, it is hurtful
AL if a trans person says an expression of GC belief is harassing, it needs to be suppressed
ED one trans person no, 10 trans people yes
AL your view doesn't all for any

As it is fit and proper.

AL an attendee tried to make a comparison between SEEN and a racist hate group
ED yes
AL was that you
ED no, no of course not, I think I know who it was, a member of CSRF
AL the person who made that connection was a member of AG?
ED Yes but at the event as a member

Of course it's not her that says such a rude thing; she understands that these people are simply mistaken, and she strives to get along with everyone 'nicely and kindly'.

Just noticed your new name! 😂

Well its clear it is tinkers or one of his comrades.

AL that recognises under diversity, the full range of human diversity in the UK, recognises each individual is different and diversity makes teams more effective

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that including people who are mad as a box of frogs in the diversity quota does not appear to be meeting the aim of efficiency...

So when ED was asked if there were other a:gender members at that event she says she does not know, but when questioned about the person who made the racism comparison, she knows exactly that they are a member of a:gender but that does not count because they are also a member of something else? 🤨

assessment of context, or the validity of the complaint
ED we asked for views, and response high AL that's the survey we discussed
ED yes, 167 people
AL there's no network in DEFRA or gov that is based on same sex relationships being sinful,
ED not yet
AL and not one based on anti-Zionism
ED not yet
AL you're scaremongering by suggesting that they might be set up
ED I'm not. Why wouldn't they set up? Why wouldn't they follow the blueprint of SEEN and get a tribunal to say their belief is appropriate,
AL - you don't have evidence that such a network is going to be set up, you are speculating arent you
ED yes
J are you equating the beliefs of SEEN to views mentioned at the beginning of para 25?
ED I suppose I am saying there is an equivalence, the views that might be expressed by a homophobic network might have the impact

AL seems not to be willing to take shit from J today which is refreshing. J might be bored with the paperwork but AL has every right to bring the truth of the claims into question with the facts as evidenced in the paperwork. J is really fucking me off so much of the time with his disrespect towards Rs and IVs reps

J that's a lot of documents
AL, are we going to look at all of them
AL yes, Judge I am deliberately taking the witness to all of them.

He's going to hoist her by her own petard - in step by step fashion.

Selective memory and loose grasp on reality.

I want just one time, I would take the northwest passage
To navigate the bundles reaching for Exhibit C 🎶

ED they don't follow those policies, they talk over trans people, they ignore them, they allow harassment to go on
AL support does not mean that any time at trans person complains they are unsupported

on LGB colleagues as the SEEN network has on trans and non-binary people.
AL - I've got one more topic to go, turning away from main bundle and going to supplementary bundle, just wanted to ensure everyone has it.
[bundle shuffling]

My note: we might be breaking for an extended dinner at this rate.

A gender are all homophobic network

(I know it’s in my primary bundle)

Yay it’s my time to shine 💪🏼

Bloody hell ED!

Not yet!

I love how apparently SEEN now cooked up a conspiracy to make Maya sue in a 5 year battle

ED I'm not. Why wouldn't they set up? Why wouldn't they follow the blueprint of SEEN and get a tribunal to say their belief is appropriate,