Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 4

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549122-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-3

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

wouldnt this depend on whether you are a lick off the chocolate first sort of person, or a detach the marshmallow from the biscuit using only your tongue expert, or a combine all the elements in each bite to maximise the experience sensualist.

Asking for a friend.

AL Nicola Betterworth was taking prompt action on complaint, sees it as urgent, is taking appropriate action given her role
ED I don't know what her role is, maybe a director but I guess so

I am really struggling to believe ED had no idea who Nicola was. Particularly given how frequently she complained within Defra group and Cabinet Office. She was the head of HR, she frequently featured on Tamara Finklesteins (the then Perm Sec) all staff calls. She had very high visibility. It’s a measure of how seriously Defra was taking this that Nicola was personally involved.

@myladydisdainisyetliving it puts me in mind of a local director of a school hereabouts where she and one or two other women slept in the school building during the most recent heatwave so they could keep all the windows open and cool the place down for the students. Sensible women all.

@CompleteGinasaur

I imagine she made fantastic Welsh Cakes too.

Yes, I am imagining it and drooling.

I didn’t think there is an intellectual impact of swyers?

this is a stupid lie/exaggeration to attempt in. Court with hundreds of people scrutinising your evidence.

It just makes no sense to me that jam would go on first - to me cream is the butter substitute, you don’t put jam on your bread and then butter.

I’ve been known to just have cream, when I have jam it’s a little dollop on top of an inch of cream

It's not the right lived experience!

Thanks again C&Pers

I am finding the pace of this cross exam much better than previous, very looking forward to Naomi's turn, and hoping the judge butts out.

I think the jam first vs cream first has the potential to be the next new schism no one wants in the feminist movement.

I can only follow this case intermittently (curse you, paid work) but I am open mouthed at the nonsense these workplaces accommodate.

It's like the comment earlier about the importance of inclusion -

while excluding them.

Bonkers.

She'd been a cook in service in her youth, so they were fantastic, yes. I still dream about her chocolate cake. My Welsh cakes, and indeed anything else I bake, are just a pale imitation and a mockery.

Would you not put butter before the jam (as per normal) and consider the cream a topping (as per cream on a cake)?

It has to be cream first (and the cream must be clotted cream, of course), otherwise the cream slides off the top of the jam. As much cream as possible, use knife to create peaks and troughs, enough jam to fill the hollows and gently drip over the sides (but not too much). It's a fine art, prepare a scone.

(namey changington ta-da!)
Sorry, no. Butter only on a Welsh Cake, diolch yn fawr iawn!

ED doesn’t understand that people claiming to feel harassed isn’t proof they have been. There’s a test of reasonableness involved, as the Respondents’ opening note emphasises.

Then she complains about Elspeth’s legal training! Yes, Emma, when people understand the law it’s much harder to bully them into submission. Poor you!

It will be interesting to see how this particular judge deals - or doesn't - with two strong-minded women talking to each other.

I prefer Chantilly cream, then jam.

I've not seen a response from Jimmy so I will pick it up for now - if someone else wants to do it then please shout! I'm WFTCHTJ.

(cream first, always)

From TT:

The court is taking its lunch break at present, and we expect the hearing to restart at 2.05pm.

Alexander Line (AL) the barrister for the Respondents will complete his cross-examination of Emma Dunn (ED), at the time of events the Chair of a:Gender (aG) - the cross-civil-service staff network for Trans, Non Binary & Intersex staff.

ED will then be further cross-examined by Naomi Cunningham (NC), barrister for case intervenors SEEN (Sex Equality & Equity Network), the staff network for gender-critical (GC) civil servants and the SEEN DEFRA departmental network.

Ironically, the original intent of team diversity was to produce better work by stopping group think. Instead, they’ve ended up with groupthink dictated by anointed (and some cases self-identifying) minorities.

"Samantha did not need my wisdom or my powers of persuasion or anything like that. She really just needed a hand to hold."

Thank goodness, because it doesn't look like you've got any of the first one to spare. Still, two out of three for dear strong exhausted ST.

you don’t put jam on your bread and then butter.

Of course not. Bread, butter, jam, cream, jam, butter, bread. Only rich people can afford scones as well as clotted.

😂😂😂

I won't tolerate any criticism of my lived scone experience, and am putting in a formal complaint forthwith.

As an aside nothing beats melting salted butter on a hot Welsh cake isn't Tamara Finklestein a brilliant name? A real a der-der-DER-der-der name.

Happy to carry on till 3ish.