Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 3

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5548369-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-2

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Thankyou again for the brilliant c&p! @fanOfBen @myladydisdainisyetliving

Aldo his understanding that DEfra do in fact restrict GC expression does not back up his case.

Well quite, but he's either too stupid, or too self absorbed to realise that.

'During this period, SEEN also procured lanyards, badges and stickers bearing
the name and logo of the network. When I first saw colleagues wearing SEEN
lanyards in the workplace, it triggered a profound sense of vulnerability
because these items transform abstract ideological alignment into a visible,
physical marker that could identify the wearer as part of a group that are
hostile to my existence. When I already feel unsafe in public spaces, being
followed or encountering someone wearing these branded items makes me
feel like I'm a target. After all, I cannot expect the same level of care or
compassion from someone who so easily denies my basic existence. It
amplifies the feeling that there is no safe harbour. The badges and stickers
just serve as a constant, tangible reminder that Defra is failing to protect me.
The visible identification of SEEN network members made me concerned
about encountering them.'

We can swap all of this, word for word, for 'Progress Pride' lanyards, badges and stickers.

I'm minded of the Scottish parliament's treatment of women wearing purple scarves versus their treatment of 'Pride' branded lanyards, etc.

'During the course of the Second Grievance process, Defra proposed
appointing an external investigation firm, CMP, to investigate. I rejected this
proposal because I had concerns about the firm’s impartiality, having found
articles written by people who worked or had worked for CMP that gave me
cause for concern.'

I wonder if ST has ever claimed that he works well in a team.

J: ST that concludes your evidence so you are released from not talking about things now.

I know what the J means, but I'm imagining ST's acquaintances running away and hiding now that he has been 'released from not talking about things'

I'd like to hear an explanation of how he has the best interests of his colleagues who want and need sex based rights and to describe themselves in sex based terms at heart. Where's the reciprocal care for their authenticity and being free to feel their true selves?

What I keep seeing when reading that statement is the default male. It's watermarked on the paper, effectively. Just as his sex is coded into every cell of ST's body, his belief that men are the real humans and women are some weird, defective 'other' appears coded into his entire belief system.

He is not capable of grasping that women have their own interiority, which leads them to have views that differ from his, or of understanding that we are permitted to talk, and indeed disagree with him.

you are released from not talking about things now.

Narcisstic collapse can be quite alarming.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/understanding-narcissism/202202/what-is-a-narcissistic-collapse

I know it's not the right thread, but it's related and I thought it might gain some initial traction here - it's about the Darlington nurses. The authority has said it may take disciplinary action against them:

https://x.com/DarlingtonUnion/status/2072292462584868972

BREAKING: County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust is refusing to rule out taking disciplinary action against the Darlington nurses despite an employment tribunal finding they were unlawfully harassed. President of the Darlington Nursing Union, said: “After everything we have been through it is astonishing that the Trust is still refusing to rule out taking disciplinary action against us. “The trust has apologised. It has paid damages. It has accepted our concerns were not properly heard. An employment tribunal found we were subjected to harassment and unlawful discrimination. Yet somehow, even now, the trust appears to be keeping open the possibility of punishing the very nurses who were vindicated" See more breaking in the media

^https://express.co.uk/news/uk/2223944/nhs-nurses-trans-biological-sex-gender-gender-equality^

The process is the punishment. Again.

Found and posted on the appropriate thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5476588-darlington-nurses-win-their-employment-tribunal?page=19&reply=153267821

I’m old enough to remember the 60s and 70s when the belief that women are lesser humans was widespread and openly expressed. We made such a lot of progress with sex equality, and now we’ve gone backwards. I really do feel that collectively, men decided that equality for women has gone “too far”, and we’re seeing a huge, multi-pronged backlash, of which this whole farce is part. There are a few reasons for the furious, aggressive male support for TWAW, and I’m convinced that one of them is that women dared to oppose the invasion by TW into women’s spaces, and men were outraged that women were saying no to men.

The absolute merciless bastard fuckers.

ST truly believes that everyone exists solely to support his world view. Astonishing.

Wait till he finds out that the vast majority of TERFs are not members of any SEEN network and don't announce their TERFhood with badges or lanyards. I mean, anybody could be a secret TERF.😱😱😱

For some reason I didn't buy it when it was first published and the storm blew up. I have now rectified this and look forward to its arrival.

Anyone would think the NHS has too many nurses and wants to stop employing them. Or that the NHS has money to burn on endless litigation.

"I cannot expect the same level of care or compassion from someone who so easily denies my basic existence. It amplifies the feeling that there is no safe harbour."

It's not a safe harbour, it's not a support group, it's an office. They're your colleagues, not your mum. They owe you normal professional politeness, not an exagerated level of care and compassion.

Brilliant thread.

It seems that we have the following main issues in society today.
Trans - we are all expected to go along with people pretending to be something they are not otherwise we are bigots. This goes for women who say they are men as well as men who say they are women. What infuriates me is they tell us to respect them but respect is a two way street. Surely reality is the winner here. That does not mean we do not respect other humans we just will not be told to go along with a delusion and blithely accept it. That is not bigotry.

Palestine - if we do not support with flags/badges/keffiyahs we are supporting a genocide. There has been a recent tribunal regarding an employee at Heathrow. It makes for interesting reading. Again a claimant with a tendency to be offended look to be offended and also determined not to understand what was said in reality. Just wanted her views to be accepted even in the face of strong rules and policy in the workplace https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions/ms-z-saiyed-v-lhr-airports-ltd-3300526-slash-2024

Women - our rights are being trampled over. Generally we are a resilient and supportive group especially to marginalised groups. We have been taken advantage of and the ‘be kind’ mantra has now seen groups infiltrate our hard fought for rights as women. I found the claimant today discussing menopause and breast feeding outrageous.

Why are we pandering?

Hope Elspeth gets the support she deserves.

Yes I’ve bought a couple of batches to hand out. I didn’t know about it but I’m glad to be able to gift them.

Hey Tinkerbell- if you’re around. I wish you’d been properly supported to manage your physical distress better. Both as a child and as an adult. I hope in future people are better supported to address their dysphoria rather than affirmed.

You’ve turned into quite an unpleasant person, a poor colleague and a disappointing husband / friend. Your vendetta has exposed you to the world and it is as unpleasant as what you see in the mirror.

You are a man. You might have made some body modifications but it’s an inescapable fact. You know that. Shutting out all the noise isn’t possible.

This won’t make things better for you.

I agree, it's like he thinks the world needs to be bubble wrapped and child proofed for him.

denies my basic existence

I would suggest he means the exact opposite, cause basically he's a man and people who don't deny that are making his delusion unsafe, that's his problem.

Yet again this is how captured organisations are.

I was reminded of this seeing the Pride event at Downing Street. It must be impossible to be outwardly heterosexual with a biological sex realistic view with an opposing view to transing children, objecting to fetish at Pride events. Quite literally unemployable. Where are the grown ups with a common sense approach.

We need productive employees who turn up do their job.

The theme seems to be that it is legal in theory not to enable gender ideology, but the harm it does to vulnerable men is such that women must still be made to not seek to name their bodies, their needs, their feelings, their beliefs, or ever in any way jar the happiness and very subjective beliefs of a man with a gender identity, because cruelty beyond tolerance. For the man.

The man's reciprocal cruelty in demanding this - and forcing women into existence as just NPCs with nothing to do or think about in their lives but him - is all apparently fine and normal.

The judge and this complainant are just illustrating, very largely, exactly why women need tough rights in law. And even with those rights, (and a complainant who frequently mentions his belief in the rule of law when it suits him), women are barely hanging on by their fingernails in terms of any equality or life beyond servicing the needs and feelings of those who believe so implicitly in being their betters.