As much spent on Maternity Compensation as Maternity Care

[RedToothBrush]

Ockenden also highlights a "startling statistic", that says clinical negligence is costing the NHS almost the same in legal compensation - as it spends on the delivery of maternity care itself.

This is how little women matter in political terms.

This isn't just a reflection of the NHS. It's in terms of how our society values having children.

It says everything.

I worked for the manager of the Complaints Department at my local NHS trust many years ago. The phrase ‘lessons will be learned’ was trotted out so many times it became meaningless. Lessons were never learned and the same complaint would be repeated over and over again. I left after 6 months as I couldn’t tolerate the lack of accountability any more. It was a shitshow back then and appears to have gotten worse.

That’s absolutely terrible, and I’m so sorry but unfortunately not surprised

This apology from the trust should include the money for compensation coming out of salary and pensions of those who caused the mess.

In a Trust near me it was 277 so much worse than other places.

Behind this report of the most appalling failures are individual families - many with dead mothers and / or babies, many of who were treated with the most appalling cruelty by NHS staff. The details are chilling. The report cites unbelievable levels of bullying, cruelty and racism in maternity units - both of other staff and of course mothers.
Several mortuary staff have been arrested in connection with operating practices in the mortuary service at the trust - you need to read the report to see what happened to some of the bodies of babies who died.

Numerous responsible managers in the NHS refused to co operate with Ockenden (with no consequences whatsoever). And our chaotic government might get round to having a plan to address this in about 6 months or so if they can be arsed.

The Times have been reporting all the maternity scandals in detail - here's just one of their reports:

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/nottingham-maternity-review-ockenden-report-families-scandal-sjqs2x5c9

https://archive.ph/5lWoU

It’s one in five ( still
too many ) of the deaths might have been prevented

There's always so much moaning about elective c-sections. Yet if we did more of those and fewer botched vaginal deliveries and emergency c-sections, we'd probably reduce the negligence bill massively (as well as the bill for repairing womens' bits when ripped apart).

Elective sections are not the answer. Women are not inherently faulty, unable to birth their babies. The high rate of caesarean section is doing untold harm at a population level that is not fully understood at this time.

Some women are inherently unable to give birth, thats why we used to regularly die in childbirth.

Yes there are risks with a c section but that doesn’t mean in many cases it isn’t a life saving operation.

Sorry to all those who have had losses and trauma my heart goes out to you.

Most large organisations self-insure for high frequency risks. There's no point paying an insurance company's overheads and profit when you know you're going to have to pay out on a regular basis. An insurance company would just set the premium to ensure they weren't out of pocket and still made their profit. Large organisations tend to either set up their own quasi companies (like NHS Resolution) or just have set asides on the balance sheet.

Yes. A number of inquiries into poor maternity care reveals that when maternity staff prioritise vaginal deliveries over clinical safety, the consequences have been fatal. The "natural birth at all costs" ideology has done massive harm to numerous women and babies.

but that's the thing.
GOOD maternity care avoids unecessary c sections whilst making sure those women and babies who need them get them before it becomes an acute emergency.

If your grandmother had a C-section with your mother and your mother had a C-section with you, would someone be quite as flippant with the whole 'well it's not natural'.

The thing for me is my grandmother would have died. Never mind my mum. Or me. So that's two generations of women who weren't capable of giving birth.

It's perfectly possible that I belong to a line which is unable to give birth naturally at this point. We don't know this. It's not possible to know this because it may be a unique genetic quirk or there may be more general patterns which don't necessarily apply to all women.

The flip to this is I do think undoubtedly there's a huge number of women who, if they were better supported emotionally and practically who would attempt a VB who are currently having ELCS.

I wouldn't have been one of these. I am part of an identified group which is slightly different and has different characteristics. I wouldn't have had a child.

And this is where we should be mindful about lumping all women who decide to have an ELCS together.

The terrible issues with staffing and poor care are a huge part of the issues - birth trauma still isn't being taken seriously and ELCS requests are very often due to a previous bad experience. Again this is recognised.

It's a complex subject. But we aren't collecting enough data on what's going on and reasons for an ELCS. This is really important. But no one gives a shit enough to do this research.

Define 'unnecessary'.

This matters.

Blame the Guardian then. Figures including legal costs not just damages. Estimated bill:

The £27.4bn figure is the estimated value of maternity claims arising out of incidents since April 2019. NHS Resolution said the figure could change as there is an average three-year gap between an incident and a legal claim, the most serious birth injuries resulting in payments made over several years – and sometimes for the duration of the child’s life. NHS Resolution said the £27.4bn value of maternity claims and the £37.5bn outstanding provision would fluctuate as a result of the Treasury discount rate, the formula used to calculate the value of future compensation payouts.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/20/nhs-facing-absolutely-shocking-27bn-bill-for-maternity-failings-in-england

Analysis of NHS figures shows the potential bill for maternity negligence in England since 2019 has reached £27.4bn – far more than the health service’s roughly £18bn budget for newborns in that time.

this is where the comparison is derived from. Can you explain how it’s “disinformation” @NowSober ?

It's a complex subject. But we aren't collecting enough data on what's going on and reasons for an ELCS. This is really important. But no one gives a shit enough to do this research.

that’s not correct, there’s a lot of research on the topic

I agree. My 1st birth gave me PTSD and it took me 4.5 years and 1 miscarriage to get the courage together to get pregnant again. This time I felt so distrustful of the staff, I employed an experienced and knowledgeable doula to 'shield' me, in effect, so I knew I had someone on my team who could prevent the coercion and keep them accountable. Even so I knew I couldn't give birth naturally in hospital again so I opted for either a VBAC homebirth (after much berating from the consultant) or an ELCS at 42 weeks if baby was stubborn. Thankfully he came normally, and I had an uneventful homebirth, but I only felt safe enough to even try and give birth naturally because I was on my home turf. A lot of women are not able to pay for a doula and don't have that option.

I personally don't believe that NHS maternity services as a whole are fit for purpose; the Ockendon Review only further supports my belief.
It's one of the reasons I opted for a private (IM) home birth with my third child, born at the height of the Covid pandemic.
Had I my time again I'd have elected to have them all - all categorised as low risk pregnancies - at home (with the same IM if possible).

Ive never really understood why c sections are seen as so bad. The recovery, with good care, can be better than all the injuries associated with a vaginal birth.

It's not only maternity services at Nottingham that's appalling.

But the 'with good care' part is crucial, and exactly the issue at hand. Trusts who are not giving compassionate, careful or even adequate care for vaginal births wouldn't suddenly become fine if everyone had an elective c section. A friend of mine had an elective c section and the actual birth was wonderful - calm, controlled, everything she'd hoped for - and then she was neglected with inadequate pain relief and no basic assistance on the postnatal ward. She ended up getting an infection. It turned what could have been a really great birth into an experience that she found pretty traumatic.

If the problem is the care and the attitudes to women then changing the method of birth won't solve that.

That's kinda of what I mean. Why are we worried about how women give birth and instead focus on why is any pregnant/post natal woman seen as a nuscience.