Continuation of Polypostwonder thread

[Imdunfer]

Follow on from this thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5532352-the-liminality-of-sex-perception-sex-based-spaces-and-bodily-autonomy?page=39

For argument sake, I understand Blaire White to be a woman. This is independent of the knowledge she chose to only undergo cosmetic facial surgeries and breast augmentation, while retaining everything else.
I think I remember reading that she politically aligns 'right' and is politically vocal about being a male, living as a trans woman. I'm not 100% sure, though. It's not a way that I could understand living, but it is financially lucrative in her case.

There is a person who declares themselves to be male.

That person chooses to live presenting as a female.

In spite of their self declaration as a male, complete with male genitals, you understand that they are a woman.

And you ascribe their understanding of themselves being male, at least partly, to financial motives.

This is either monumentally arrogant or monumentally stupid thinking, or possibly both. Or perhaps you just like playing with a largely female forum and seeing how many feathers you can ruffle.

One thing is for sure, and that is that I don't think anything you write on this subject from now on is going to be of any value to read.

Sorry I’m out. I’ve reached my limit in self indulgent male twaddle and being used for male amusement.

"This is either monumentally arrogant or monumentally stupid thinking, or possibly both. Or perhaps you just like playing with a largely female forum and seeing how many feathers you can ruffle."

My money's on all of the above FWIW.

Me too but I wasn't going to let that one go.

I think he's just taking the piss and seeing how far he can stretch our gullibility now.

All the more reason to “let it go, let it goooo!” 🎶

Not worth the time and energy as he doesn’t live in any shared reality with the rest of us (as he often puts it), so no real discourse is possible, only word games.

Oh but that one post was so special, it really did deserve a thread 😁

If PPW pops up on other discussions we can point straight to the utter ridiculousness of the post I've quoted in this one.

Here is Blaire White debating with a TRA and calling out similar nonsense. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tZv_MQoTQXY&ra=m

What a great bloke! I've not listened to him before. Gorgeous looking too, I'll bet that was expensive.

I tend to take up different political stances than Blaire, but appreciate his respectful and considered approach to expressing his views even when this is the case. We tend to agree on trans issues.

It was interesting to hear that a poster indicated that Blaire claims he is male for monetary reasons. I guess there isn’t much else that can be levelled at him because he does have passing privilege and he can’t be accused of sucking up to feminists - based on his wider perspectives.

In this video, I did wonder if they had a particularly lame TRA to put forward the TRA side, but I’m not sure any others would have done much better if they engaged in the points. I expect they would have resorted to accusations of transphobia. This thinking led me to respect the TRA a bit more because they stick with the points at hand even though it was clear to all that their argument was incoherent.

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

Blaire seems to advocate that the 'key' to happiness with yourself is to acknowledge reality. It does sound like a healthier approach and even helpfully points this out to Serena, who actually does not come across as being truly happy and looks quite uncomfortable with the discussion.
Love Blaire's comment 'if I could just larp as a psychologist for a moment....' or words to that effect.

Sorry, I just noticed this thread.

It has been a while since I watched one of her videos, so I may not be completely up to date on how she identifies.

In spite of their self declaration as a male, complete with male genitals, you understand that they are a woman.

Yes, I said I consider her a woman. This is based on how she lives her life, not her genitals. 'Male' in this context is birth sex, not equated with 'man.' There are plenty of trans women who identify and live, recognised as women while also acknowledging their birth sex.

And you ascribe their understanding of themselves being male, at least partly, to financial motives.

Not at all. I ascribe the financial motives to being out as a trans person. I don't understand it.

This is either monumentally arrogant or monumentally stupid thinking, or possibly both. Or perhaps you just like playing with a largely female forum and seeing how many feathers you can ruffle.

I don't see it as stupid or arrogant. I was commenting on another person's life choices which isn't great, I will agree.

I could have more clearly written "There are plenty of trans women who identify and live, recognised as trans women, while also acknowledging their birth sex.

In California, Blaire White is also legally a woman.

I guess it is also worth saying that I am not an activist. I probably said this also when I started posting, but it was likely ignored because FWR also regularly declared that I was a previous poster with a username change.

I am not discussing this with anyone else, so this is it for me. I sense it is the same for some of the gender critical people as well.

Has Blaire stopped using female single sex provisions?

He was quite upfront that he was not going to stop using them last I heard. And enough women over the years have told him that him using the provisions was wrong and that he should not do so. It would be interesting if he did stop using them.

The last time I was paying attention to her, a lot of women, even heavily conservative women, were also declaring Blaire was okay to use women's provisions because 'she was okay.'

The point people are making about predatory behaviour and transgressing female people's boundaries can be seen in these types of self published videos.
The harm to women is not just about being physically attacked. There are many other forms of harm that occurs with male people being in female single sex provisions.

For instance, the Billings video below is the reaction to being told ‘no, you should respect female people’s needs for single sex provisions’ by a celebrity. Why have we been led to believe that male people who believe they are women are different to any other male person who ignores women’s boundaries and reject women saying ‘no’.

Alexandra Billings self published these videos . This one first I believe.

https://x.com/gaynotqueer1/status/2032811484271817092?s=46

Then the chilling and menacing response to women saying 'no' here stitched into Amy Sousa’s response.

https://x.com/knownheretic/status/2032639781658833142?s=46

The menace is chilling to see. Yet, apparently we are supposed to welcome these same men into provisions designated as single sex for our protection from men threatening and intimidating us.

It becomes so clear that these men hate female people in general when they gloat over not being able to stop them accessing provisions that they should be excluded from and lack the inclination to self exclude from. Just as they gloat over organisational decisions to remove female single sex provisions in response to law changes that exclude male people from those provisions.

Here is another set of videos that shows the same dynamic.
Daviana. Who started posting videos about how he knew he was a man etc. He was considered to be 'one of the reasonable ones' because of that.

Of course, as he has made more videos more has come out about what and how he really thinks. .

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2031523680136868150?s=20

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2031873045682667588?s=20

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2031975467725832460?s=20

These men are chilling once you see what they really think. We see it regularly when male people with transgender identities intimidate and threaten us at women’s events. From Baker (‘punch a terf’) to the man yelling at us to stop murdering children not so long ago.

The gloating from Daviana and Billings as they envision negative impacts on female people because they rejected his demands seems to be highlighting just how common that reaction is from men who don’t get what they want from women.

Billings and Daviana are just two men who are showing women who they really are. It seems some men really cannot help themselves in showing that these demands are also part of the power dynamic.

This is where you show again you do not understand consent or safeguarding. It is irrelevant that any female people tell a male person that it is ok with them if they use the publicly accessed female single sex provision. Because those female people cannot consent on the behalf of others.

Hence it doesn’t matter one jot if a male person’s female friend or relative tells them they can use a publicly accessed female single sex provision, it is not up that male person’s female friend or relative. An adult male person should have the respect for all of the female people who might not consent to stay out regardless of the pressure of female friends or relatives. And those female friends or relatives should also learn that they cannot consent on behalf of the collective female population.

“I think he's just taking the piss and seeing how far he can stretch our gullibility now.”

I don’t believe there are many regular posters who have been in discussion with this poster and other male posters who have made similar statements that I would consider ‘gullible’ as it is very few of them who have indicated in any way that they are convinced by what these posters are saying.

I wasn't posting this as an endorsement of other women's statements. It was to provide a counter narrative to your statement "enough women over the years have told him that him using the provisions was wrong and that he should not do so." How many women is enough?

As I've said previously, in the 80s there were a lot of cultural beliefs and social pressures placed on gay men and lesbian women. Discrimination was previously enshrined within laws. How many gay and lesbian people do you believe conformed to those laws?

Your framing of 'consent' and 'safeguarding' doesn't exist outside of gender critical beliefs. Your definition of male is also a belief. I'm going to respect your right to your beliefs and disagree.

My ‘framing’ of consent and safeguarding is based on safeguarding principles. Those are the basis for policies. If a policy is created that doesn’t follow those points, then it is a safeguarding fail.

As I said, it is irrelevant whether there are any female people telling him they don’t mind him using female single sex provisions. They don’t get to consent on behalf of any other female person.

And it would follow, using that same argument, that no woman can withdraw consent (if such a thing even exists) on behalf of any other woman.

ETA "in this context" to the above because gender critical people.

Im so over debating this with a man who says he doesn’t require my consent. And who regularly breaks mnhq guidance but is somehow happy to carry on.

its a waste of my time.

everyone needs to obey the law in the country that they’re in. If you don’t like it, campaign to change it.

What a ridiculous argument, you're scraping the barrel now. I thought you were an intelligent person.

You are talking about a law that says men should not be in women's spaces.

The consent those women are giving is to do something which is not legal for the supplier to provide.

And in that case, the concept of "withdrawing consent" for other women to give consent to breaking the law is utterly ridiculous.

Those women also have rights to a female only space. That right cannot be removed by another woman who doesn't care about sharing her space with a man.

And again, statements like this show two things

Firstly, it is confirmation that you really have no understanding of consent. Because it doesn’t matter how many female people consent to a male person accessing a publicly accessed female single sex provision, the minimum needed for that consent to be withdrawn for safeguarding purposes is 1 female user who doesn’t consent. Rrmembering also that children cannot consent.

Secondly, that is one upping statements like that show you really have no respect or care for female people’s needs. It shows that it is all about you.

“I do not require your consent”

not one I’ll forget for a very long time.