Should breast implants for males be made illegal?

[happydappy2]

Having learned more about the sexual desires of males, AGP in particular. I now think that as women we have to push back and stop this madness. We live in a world where females are vulnerable to sexual assault by males-we are literally hunted by them. Combined with the safeguarding of children aspect....all parents I know explain to young children that if you get lost, look for a lady to help you, preferably another Mummy....I know men can wear a padded bra to achieve the look, but still the thought of males getting sexual pleasure by having fake boobs & their male tackle-just seems wrong. Am I alone in thinking this? Looking at society as a whole, I can't see any benefit to women and children of men being allowed to get silicone breast implants.....

Some transwomen retain their penis because they are still waiting for lower surgery, can't access it, or don't want to have it because it's a major surgery with risks involved. This doesn't automatically make them perverts or fetishists.

Some men choose to retain their penis because they are perverts &/or fetishists.

I wouldn't be so proud of the fact that my daughter is a drug abuser using testosterone to alter her appearance.

No. Male boobs are not female boobs.

Could you please detail how male 'breast tissue' becomes the interactive system that is behind the breast and endocrine system of a female person?

Because I have asked this on numerous thread and no one can link up the evidence that this is possible.

Male breasts can be developed to a point and can secrete a substance that has yet to be thoroughly tested as being safe for infants, including being safe for an infants long term development. Even Madeline Deutsch, Professor of Clinical Family & Community Medicine and male person with a transgender identity chose not to do this when he had the chance because those secretions have not been tested properly.

Ridiculous idea. Absolutely not. People have bodily autonomy and can do what they like if they have mental capacity to give informed consent and it harms no one else.

State funding and general private health insurance should only fund it in exceptionally rare circumstances (it would apply to barely 1% of trans identified males) where Psychologists determine that all other pathways have failed and it's the only way to help the man accept himself and live his life (while demonstrating that he fully understands that no surgical procedure or hormone treatment actually makes him a woman) - this used to be the bar for surgical treatment for transsexuals back in the 80s/90s. Such a pathway must explicitly be inaccessible to AGPs but they should still be at liberty to fully self-fund the procedure - but there would need to be some kind of mechanism so that the NHS doesn't pick up the bill for any lifelong health problems or followup treatments needed due to complications from such self-funded surgery (but I think that shoukd be true for all voluntary cosmetic procedures)

but there would need to be some kind of mechanism so that the NHS doesn't pick up the bill for any lifelong health problems or followup treatments needed due to complications from such self-funded surgery (but I think that shoukd be true for all voluntary cosmetic procedures

I would be interested if anyone knows of such a possible mechanism. I imagine none of us want the NHS to be turning away people with sepsis, say, just because they had the op done privately, but the NHS is on its knees and it seems that extreme body modification is on the rise.

Transwomen are men - only men can become transwomen, no woman can become a transwoman.
Human beings can't change sex.
Men who claim they are now women are not, because it's impossible.

They can say they are women till the cows come home, but constantly repeating an impossibility doesn't make it true.

What they look like does not change what they are. I'm too polite to ever ridicule anybody for how they look, but that doesn't mean that I can't note objectively that transpeople who have obviously put a lot of effort into looking like their preferred sex are often instantly recognisable as belonging to the sex they were born with.

the hypervigilance, stress, prejudice and ever-present threat of violence is awful.
I'm glad you brought that up. Keeping transpeople in a constant state of hypervigilance about threats of things that very rarely happen is difficult to justify.

Transpeople are not under constant threat of violence, so why tell them they are? Why hold Trans Days of Remembrance in countries where there has never been a transphobic murder? Why this ramping up of hypervigilance without evidence to back it up?
Why this claim of being marginalised and oppressed, when in fact the tiny number transpeople in society have a disproportionate presence in the media and influence in politics?

Why these constant OTT accusations of hate, toxicity, 'literal violence' against even the most respectfully-expressed GC opinion?

What is the function of all this manufactured hypervigilance, and who is most affected by it, I wonder.
I'm sure many? most? transpeople are sussed enough to know that they are not under a raised threat of violence, they are far from being marginalised, they are very present in the media, and their human rights are protected by equality legislation.

But there must be others who have a feeling of fear and desperation because of this atmosphere of ramped-up hypervigilance - could this be why some trans activists turn to aggression and even violence?
If you're [one is] being told that you are threatened with 'literal genocide' just because people don't believe that humans can change sex, I suppose that could make you think you are justified in smashing windows or punching TERFs or threatening them with rape or gruesome deaths.

You have yet to provide any evidence for your repeated claims that male people who have transgender identities have the same or lower risk of committing sexual offences as the general female population

If you have something to support your claims statistically please do so. Otherwise, your claims and statements are not based on evidence and are still emotionally reasoned.

Agreed. I think plastic surgery men can get to help them to pretend to be women is shocking, and should be illegal. In my book plastic surgeons are rarely doing society any good and should not be allowed to operate the way they do, feeding into the mental health problems of people with more money than sense.

I was thinking that for the UK it should be a specialist add-on insurance product. Mandatory to purchase as part of the fees for the original procedure if the private surgery happens in the UK. Mandatory to purchase on returning to the UK if the procedure takes place abroad (with significantly higher premiums if the procedure takes place somewhere where the reason why its cheaper is because it's done so badly that complications are more likely). Automatic fine of 5x the premium cost if you evade buying it. Premium set to be sufficient to cover the overall cost of treatment for consequential effects from complications, side effects, sepsis etc across all premium holders (hopefully many of whom would be OK). Payout is to the NHS to refund full cost of treatment as and when something goes wrong.

Not specifically aimed at people buying transgender surgical procedures. Same deal for all cosmetic body modifications including aesthetic dentistry. NHS treatment imited to restoring body to healthy infection-free functioning, not reconstructing implants or other surgical grafts that have failed.

I can’t see a mechanism being possible, including for those who have Turkish teeth, weight loss surgery, Brazilian butt lifts etc.
All of those can lead to lifelong medical issues that are picked up by the NHS.

And the cross sex hormones, young girls on steroids, surgery etc, all carry lifelong additional health needs that the tax payer ends up funding.

Bodily autonomy is a cornerstone of feminism. We can't then turn around and start policing male bodies. If we want our own autonomy, we must have a courtesy to not star becoming the oppressors.

I agree.

I think this is a medical ethics/ hippocratic oath/ fitness to practice debate rather than a legal one.

Arguably any doctor carrying out the procedures you described shouldn't be allowed to continue practicing, because they are medically unnecessary and cause objective harm.

My understanding of breast surgery is that it carries a significantly higher infection risk than other surgeries, so risk of harm is real even there.

But then this would effectively bring to an end cosmetic surgery.

I guess we have moved away from Hippocratic oath to bodily autonomy with informed decision making, and this is where it gets us.

Yes, that would probably be the way to go. Just like medical insurance when someone visits the US. I think the NHS has a pretty dire record of actually getting money owed out of visitors to the UK who use A&E, so the Department for Chasing Payments would need to be beefed up a bit.

I don't think any cosmetic surgery should be illegal, but I agree with pp that a condition of having it privately done should be the purchase of some form of insurance that will fund any care necessary as a result of complications.

I agree with this.

Here's an interesting case of a local health service having to deal with a problem arising overseas, in this case
'where do you go when you have a problem with your recently acquired overseas neo-vagina?'
The answer in Dublin in 2024 was, ironically... the National Maternity Hospital.

Apologies, mea-culpas, must do betters, meetings with trans groups...
but at least the discrimination claim was dropped.

However, the case is used as 'evidence' for the need for specific trans healthcare provision, it has even been claimed that the root of the problem was that he had to travel abroad instead of being provided with his neo-vagina at home in Ireland.

In fairness, it should be pointed out that this case is outnumbered by people presenting with serious health issues arising from cosmetic/aesthetic/dental work carried out overseas, as mentioned by RareGoalsVerge, so it's not just an issue with trans-related treatments.

St James’s Hospital apologises to trans woman over treatment at emergency department – The Irish Times

Son. See above.

It's interesting that previous posters have mentioned bodily autonomy & how important that is. I personally feel comfortable at drawing the line for surgery that imitates being the opposite sex....as yet there is no proof that this route actually helps the person suffering disphoria.....so really whats the point of doing it?

A female who has a boob job isn't doing something to mimic the opposite sex-she is doing something to (in her mind) improve her appearance. Or be more comfortable if having a reduction. I don't see the 2 cases of males/females having silicone implants as comparable.

Having seen horrific images of females having phalloplasty surgery and reading of awful complications following on from that-it wouldn't surprise me if this type of surgery is actually banned. If tongue splitting is banned this isn't implausible

It’s so confusing when these TRAs abuse the English language calling men women & women men. My opinion of a man abusing oestrogen is the same as my opinion of a woman abusing testosterone. Either way they are drug abusers just like bodybuilders abusing anabolic steroids like testosterone.

But what happens when it goes wrong after the private surgery and he gets an infection or sepsis or some other medical emergency that he then needs lifesaving surgery for?

I'm the mother of a young trans man who - as I've said repeatedly here - suffered extreme harassment and violence at school.

I've many times watched him collapse exhausted from the hypervigilance after enduring a school bus ride home.

I've watched him grow up and learn all kinds of extra defences. Tactics for being followed, filmed, stalked, harassed on the street, when strangers (as they do repeatedly) ask "what are you?"

I've seen it happen to other trans people too - and worse. Every young trans woman I know has been forced to leave home and has no family support.

I have seen, close-up and for years, the impact that transphobic hate - all of it enabled by online transphobia - has had.

I know what it feels like to watch your child leave the house and feel terrified he isn't going to come back. That's not hyperbole - he was several times approached by adults who tried to get him to leave with him.

What on earth do you think all the conspiratorial thinking, hatred and ignorance visible on here results in? Violence, most of it sexual, and usually against children.

Treating trans people as a conspiracy is encouraging violent men to believe that attacking them - even killing them - is socially acceptable. Dehumanisation always does that.

My god you need help. What an absolute avalanche of hatred. Just because don't want to hear trans children report the violence and fear they live with, or see the statistics showing a steep rise in hate crimes against trans people, does not mean it is untrue.

Breast enhancement surgery is sometimes - VERY rarely - given on the NHS to female people, where (perhaps due to a genetic difference in sexual development) their own breast are not developed, or are significantly different in size, and if they are suffering extreme psychological impact as a result. The threshold to qualify is very difficult to overcome but the risks and costs are no less for these people than they are for males, so I don't think there is justification for an outright ban, just that the threshold to qualify should be such that it is extremely rare, and never given just because of a desire or fetishistic motivation.

Telling vulnerable children that either a) they could essentially change sex or b) people would go along with the idea that they had changed sex - was immensely wrong.

I'm sorry your child got caught up in it. I hope they get the mental health support they need.

The trans activists have done this generation a huge disservice.

Fine, if men want breast implants and are prepared to pay for them, I wouldnt stand in their way.

Unfortunately women now know more about what's motivating many of these men than they ever wanted to 😵‍💫

I don't really see why. Neo penis/neo vagina or whatever they call them are much more brutal and harmful and unnecessary and that's legal?

Why should only one sex be allowed breast surgery? The act of having silicone breasts isn't actively harmful to the person or to others. You may not like the look of it.

But men can wear breast plates that look like comically large boobs which if anything could be more offensive looking. As a responsible surgeon wouldn't agree to putting such big implants into someone.

Oh get lost. Victim-blaming anyone - let alone children - for being themselves is genuinely evil.

The vast majority of trans children (like my son) have done nothing more than go to school with a new name and slight haircut change, and you think it's understandable they're targeted?!

No one creates trans children. He was the sole trans boy in a school of hundreds, and the target of unimaginable harassment. No child would put up with that unless living as themselves meant more.

As if you care in the slightest about him. Online transphobia is rocket fuel to the abuse that is irreparably harming trans children.