Should breast implants for males be made illegal?

[happydappy2]

Having learned more about the sexual desires of males, AGP in particular. I now think that as women we have to push back and stop this madness. We live in a world where females are vulnerable to sexual assault by males-we are literally hunted by them. Combined with the safeguarding of children aspect....all parents I know explain to young children that if you get lost, look for a lady to help you, preferably another Mummy....I know men can wear a padded bra to achieve the look, but still the thought of males getting sexual pleasure by having fake boobs & their male tackle-just seems wrong. Am I alone in thinking this? Looking at society as a whole, I can't see any benefit to women and children of men being allowed to get silicone breast implants.....

I have and always will stand in solidarity with trans people. I'm a feminist and a survivor. I say that because I know what it looks like when someone uses the language of safety and protection to avoid accountability and silence the people they've harmed. I've lived it. That experience is exactly why I support trans people — not in spite of understanding abuse dynamics, but because of it. When I look at gender-critical rhetoric, I recognise the DARVO playbook.

DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender to avoid accountability for harm — they deny the harm exists, attack anyone raising it, then reframe themselves as the real victims. It's well-documented in abuse literature and it maps almost perfectly onto anti-trans campaigning.

DENY
The real, documented harm trans people face — discrimination, exclusion, violence, years-long waits for healthcare — gets minimised or dismissed outright.

• "Trans people have more rights than ever" (so there's nothing to complain about)
• Transition is framed as a "social contagion" or "trend" — if trans identity isn't real, the harm isn't real either
• The exclusion of trans people from public life is treated as having no consequences worth discussing

ATTACK
Rather than engaging with the substance, the tactic is to go after the credibility and character of trans people and anyone who supports them.

• Trans women are framed as predators or fetishists
• Trans men are framed as confused lesbians, denying them any agency
• Allies are dismissed as "handmaidens," cowards, ideologically captured, too stupid to understand. They are intentionally misquoted to provoke a response. Their refusal to engage is misquoted as “well that must mean xxx” or “goes to show I’m right” again to belittle, demean and provoke a response.
• Doctors, researchers, and organisations supporting trans healthcare are accused of acting in bad faith or for profit
• The term "TERF" is itself weaponised as evidence of harassment — so naming the tactic becomes the attack
• Academic and medical consensus on gender-affirming care is dismissed as "activist science"
• Detransitioners are platformed and used to delegitimise the broader community
• The unvalidated "rapid onset gender dysphoria" hypothesis is cited repeatedly to imply parents and clinicians are being manipulated
• Organisations like Stonewall and Mermaids are recast as sinister lobby groups rather than civil rights organisations
• Trans women in sport — a vanishingly small real-world issue — are amplified to paint all trans women as inherently deceptive
• The language of child safeguarding is invoked to imply trans-inclusive teachers and clinicians are predatory — a serious smear borrowing the moral weight of a genuine concern and redirecting it as a character attack

REVERSE VICTIM AND OFFENDER
This is the core move. The actual power dynamic gets flipped.

• Women are cast as endangered, with trans women specifically as the threat — despite trans women being among the most at-risk groups in society
• A well-funded, media-connected campaign presents itself as brave underdogs being silenced
• "I lost my job for saying women are female" becomes the headline oppression, drowning out trans people's actual experiences
• Lesbian identity is framed as under siege by trans inclusion, so exclusion gets repackaged as self-defence
• Trans-affirming care for children is labelled "gender ideology" harming kids — making the people providing care look like the abusers

Why this matters
DARVO works because it forces the people seeking basic rights onto the defensive. Trans people end up having to justify their existence rather than the policy question supposedly being debated. The asymmetry is telling: one side is asking to exist in public life. The other has reframed that ask as an attack on women.

Once you know the framework, the playbook is very clear. It’s been clear in all the anti trans messages on here. It will be clear no doubt in the replies. I -‘and others - see the manipulation you all use.

SockPlant, I am reminded of the adage "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it". No point arguing with the pig-headed, nor indeed paying any attention to them at all.

And the thread, as so many others, has been quite excessively derailed by the lackwits who drag their own personal brand of meaningless and irrelevant mud into every discussion. I apologise for contributing to the silliness; I'll try to resist doing it again..

It's interesting how quickly the quality of 'Kate's' posts deteriorated.

Sacrosanct is not practical. There's not enough space in most places for four spaces.

🤣🤣

That's all very well, but you are just defending the mantras of TWAW and TMAM. You are not offering any explanation for why anyone should believe the mantras in the first place.

Following on from my post about DARVO, I want to name something more specific: how these tactics play out in practice on forums like this one. Because once you've posted something trans-inclusive, you'll likely encounter a very recognisable set of moves.

Misrepresentation (Deny, reloaded)
The first tactic is putting words in your mouth.

• "So you're saying women don't deserve safe spaces" — you said no such thing
• "You just admitted trans women aren't really women" — you didn't
• Quoting you out of context, or paraphrasing so loosely it becomes a different argument entirely
• Then defending the misrepresentation when you correct it: "that's what you implied"

This is denial applied to your position rather than their own. It forces you to spend your energy correcting the record rather than making your actual argument.

Claiming victimhood from the exchange itself (Attack + Reverse)
The moment you push back, the goalposts move to the tone of your pushback.

• "You're being really aggressive" — when you're not
• "This is exactly the abuse trans activists dish out" — for a calm, evidenced response
• "I feel unsafe having this conversation" — deployed to shut down legitimate challenge
• Reporting posts that contain no rule violations, then citing the report as evidence of harassment

Note: this works especially well on forums because moderators see the complaint, not the full context.

Argument by silence
Perhaps the most insidious one.

• If you don't reply, it's taken as agreement or concession: "notice she hasn't answered that"
• If you do reply, the volume of responses is used against you: "obsessed," "can't let it go"
• Taking a break from a thread is framed as running away
• Not engaging with every single point is presented as being unable to

This is a trap. There is no correct response within the rules they've set, because the rules exist to make you lose regardless.

Demanding you prove a negative

• "Prove trans women aren't a safeguarding risk" — an unfalsifiable demand
• "You can't name one harm caused by GC campaigning" — when you can, it's dismissed as anecdote
• "Where's your evidence?" asked in bad faith, with any evidence immediately reframed as biased

The consensus manufacture

• "Everyone here agrees with me" — used to make dissent feel isolated
• Piling on with multiple posters making the same point to create an impression of overwhelming agreement
• "Even other trans-inclusive people think you've gone too far"

How to handle it
You don't have to. Seriously. DARVO and its forum variants are specifically designed to make you exhaust yourself justifying your existence in the conversation. You're allowed to name the tactic once, clearly, and then decline to engage further. "I've addressed this, I won't be responding to misrepresentations of my position" is a complete sentence.

Silence is not concession. Disengaging is not losing. And recognising the playbook means you're not confused by it — even when it's frustrating.

happy to say i did report one of the tedious "no you smell" posts and it was deleted.

you may be willing to sacrifice provision for people with disabilities by throwing them under the trans bus, but i am not.

Men can budge up and let all men use their facilities. Women and people who need accessible toilets can keep ours.

nice of "kate" to outline their tactics in the two interminable Copy/Pasted posts above.

Not on the NHS. Privately they can do what they want.

As if the NHS doesn't have enough budget problems as it is.

A whiff of AI, but hey that's the way the world is going.

The posts are pointless becasue we can DARVO her DARVO and so on ad infinitum. I'll be back if she explains how people can change sex.

keep up the DARVO… it all just helps other on here see your bad faith tactics

I am more than happy for anyone to read this thread. In fact, the more the merrier. That's why I keep bumping it.

Because disabled people already have few enough facilities and I don’t fancy pissing myself because a man won’t use the correct sex toilet.

That’s fine. Men can use the men’s. You know. Those men born male who are supposed, in law, to use the men’s anyway.

Stealthing is a crime and as a rape survivor I find the disregard for my consent appalling.

Eh? Stealthing is when a man takes his condom off during sex without the permission of his partner. Did you definitely reply to the right thread? We are talking about loos.

You must surely see that a trans woman is a huge target for being physically attacked by men in the men's loos and that, if they have had much of their strength dissolved by taking hormones, it wouldn't exactly be a fair fight. I'm sure you wouldn't want an innocent person to be badly beaten, no matter their sex or gender.

No reason why TW can't use the disabled loos. People have to learn to share, since there isn't infinite space.

no, we're talking about men getting breast implants because they want them. thats what this thread is about

but trans women don't have to take any hormones to be trans....people absolutely don't have to share any space! womens are females, disabled are for disabled.

Mens are for the men-no matter how they identify, it really is that simple.

The "we" there was me and Taztoy and our last couple of sentences to each other.

NameChangeMay2026 No reason why TW can't use the disabled loos. People have to learn to share, since there isn't infinite space.

No reason why TW can't use the men's loos - there's no evidence they'd be in any danger there.

Why the hell should they use the disabled loos, if they are not disabled?

Disabled people campaigned for decades for the adapted facilities that they need, not that they 'prefer' or 'feel more comfortable using' or 'validates their identity'.

Disabled people need adapted toilets.
Transwomen do not.
Need.
Choice.
Not the same thing.

There isn't infinite space, so transpeople can use the existing facilities designated for their biological sex.

I think you're failing to see the risk to transwomen of certain kinds of men beating them up.

They're much safer in the disabled loos, which are almost always free anyway. People have to share, since there's not infinite space.

I don't know why you'd want to insist on TW being put into a vulnerable position. I very much doubt you would want anyone to be beaten up.

Do you think that gay men, old men, disabled men, teenage men should also be told to use the disabled loos? I think that it is time that the issue of the small proportion of men who are violent towards other men based on how they look, is finally addressed by men themselves as a sex-class of grown up humans.