Do transmen suffer from a form of autogynephilia or do they have 'genuine' gender dysphoria?

[GaIadriel]

Not looking to stir things up although I do appreciate this may be a controversial question.

I've read so much about how transwomen are often motivated by sexual perversions etc, and my kneejerk reaction is that it's certainly feasible. However, when I think about transmen it becomes a little bit more ambiguous.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that it's to 'escape from the pressures of being a female' as is often claimed because male hierarchy seems much more brutal and unforgiving to my eyes and seems to punish the 'weak' to a much greater extent.

When a female presents as male and uses male facilities (as many successfully do due to passing much more easily than most TW) what is their motivation for doing this?

Hmm, in not at all sure that is true .

This is so sexist and reductive: the creepy male pervs vs the wholesome, asexual females, only interested in relationships.

Asexual? Where did you get that? When I say "relationships", I mean the whole scope of them, including very much the sexual side of them. Also, calling women who are into m/m "wholesome" is kinda hilarious when you know the reputation they have...

Speaking for myself, I absolutely do/did get erotically excited at the thought of having a penis and of being the penetrator, and I've read many accounts from other women saying the same. I mean, it makes sense: the role of women in penetrative sex is limited in a way it isn't for men.

Okay. Are you and those other women members of the m/m community, and do you and they think you are transmen? If so, I'll defer to your greater experience. I've just never knowingly come across one of you.

@McSilkson do you think you are a man? There is a difference between a sexual fantasy and believing you actually are a man and insisting everyone else in the world play along with you.

If you read regularly at detransitioner forumes you will hear young women talk about this from time to time. And yes, they thought they were men, because that was the explanation they were being given.

It's also interesting to read some of the accounts from really young guys who seem to be AGP, they have been done zero favours being told they are "really" women by lobbyists and the medical establishment. Those who begin to see what the real nature of the situation is seem much more able to take some control of their behaviour and emotions and relationships.

I've come across quite a few women describing how they 'feel like' or 'identify with' gay men - including Camille Paglia. I get that in a way myself, because even though I am heterosexual in orientation there is an aspect of me that, at times, perceives my self as a gay man. Sometimes when I look at attractive young men it is as if I am looking at them through the eyes of a man. In that moment I am a gay man. I've no desire to be an actual man in everyday life though. It is purely sexual/relational - in passing moments. I can well imagine that some lesbians identify themselves with the 'male role' when it comes to romantic and sexual relationships.

And yes, they thought they were men, because that was the explanation they were being given.

That makes me so angry. "Oh, you feel Like This? Trans! You feel Like That? Trans too! All of you, get yourselves to surgeons and endocrinologists, hop hop!" No! Fuck no! There are plenty of other reasons one might feel Like This or That, and those reasons must be explored before any definitive physical measures are undertaken. How is that not obvious to everyone!?

Those who begin to see what the real nature of the situation is seem much more able to take some control of their behaviour and emotions and relationships.

Right!? It's almost like it's so much easier to deal with something when you've properly identified the problem: Who would have thought?