Friend shocks me by suddenly saying he's female. How to handle this?

[MiffedatMP]

A month ago a male co-researcher and friend I have known for 10 years, "came out as trans" by posting a couple of pics of himself on FB wearing eyeliner and studs in his newly pierced ears, and by changing his pronouns to he/she and saying he is a "trans female".

Just four weeks previously we spent the whole afternoon together and he did not breathe a word about this. He is 45, tall, broad-shouldered, slim-hipped and has angular, very masculine facial features. He looked and acted exactly the same as I have always known him: completely male in looks, speech, mannerisms, dress, etc. Therefore his announcement has come as a complete shock and, to be honest, at first I thought he was playing a prank.

Later this year we are supposed to begin a joint project which entails working closely together for months and I just don't know how to handle the situation. I've been wondering how long I can avoid ever referring to him by any pronoun - easy when it's just the two of us but the moment I have to refer to him as "he" or "her" to another person I am going to have to make a choice. I'm already worrying about this eventuality because it is bound to happen. Also on the project itself... there may be some wording which refers to him by a pronoun and again, I have to make a choice. I don't see how I can get out of this awkward situation. If I refer to him as "she" then I am sort of announcing that I am going along with this nonsense, and if I call him "he" then obviously this is going to cause massive fall out between us. He might storm out and the project abandoned, possibly after many weeks of work.

Even if I can manage to avoid the pronoun thing, how can I stay silent or dodge the subject if he looks me right in the eye and tells me he's now female? He hasn't yet changed his name but if he does I just don't think I can bring myself to call him by a female name.

I thought the easiest thing would be to just cancel the project, but that would make it look like I cancelled "just because he's trans", making me look like the baddie, losing his friendship forever and risking him smearing my good name around our small town, among our many mutual acquaintances, with goodness knows what social/business/friendship repercussions. Ditto if I replace him with someone else - I'd have to give him a reason, which, again, will get me into some kind of trouble, name-called, cancelled, hated because there are quite a few punitive activists where I live.

I understand now why people go along with it - because the alternative is life-changing, possibly life-ruining.

I just really, really wish he hadn't done this because it's made things so awkward.

What would you do?

Why wouldn't you? It's not your life. If it makes them happy, idgaf personally.

I appreciate the nuance, but for me I have never been able to understand how the existence of trans women could possibly "invalidate" my existence as a woman. Nor how it might infringe on my rights. And truly, I cannot fathom how it degrades me.
I don't intend to be dismissive by saying 'overblown', because I can tell that most people are coming from a place of of genuine concern, but I more meant to highlight that the discourse on this topic is HUGE compared to other things that actually affect women a lot more. It makes me suspicious that this is one of those culture wars peddled by the powers that be to distract from much bigger problems.

If you are asking me to call a man 'she' then it very much is my life because you are asking me to change my language and to lie.

If you don't give a fuck either way, that's great. I get it.

Respectfully, I am a feminist and I fully know and understand, from my own experience sadly, why women mistrust men. But the fact that I can't have an opposing view to yours without such a vitriolic response (as vitriolic as OP is expecting for her gc views) is pretty telling. I agree that male privilege is real and oppressive and no trans woman can know what it's like to grow up with that. I don't agree that any man would willingly give up that privilege unless they felt they had no choice. They certainly wouldn't upend their lives and invite loads of hate just to, idk, be spiteful to women? I'm never been in any online spaces on this topic, either for or against, except this thread now (thank goodness!), and I don't have any trans family of friends, so I really have no skin in the game. I just hate seeing people be dehumanised, ever.

That's your perogative and I respect that. I just don't think it's that deep, personally.

'I just hate seeing people be dehumanised, ever.'

It's pretty dehumanising to be impelled to participate in someone else's delusion. You may not. But that's what it feels like for many women. Do our feelings not matter?

I think that's a very fair and common stance. Many people are just not involved in or aware of the nuances of the impact on women's rights if the definition of women includes men.

If we can't define ourselves in law then we cannot define our rights in law.

It's extremely important that women as a sex class are recognised in our own right and that we maintain those protections in law.

@Melom I wanted to repost what you said up thread because I think it's the best advice on here.

Be humans with each other and don't treat each other like avatars of culture war positions and it will likely be fine

Your feelings definitely matter! I don't myself, see why that is dehumanising, however.

(I do appreciate everyone's perspective, though, especially as most people have been respectful to me, as I hope I am also being)

I see. What rights are you thinking of? I can't think of any that are that specific, but as you say I haven’t given it much thought.

The problem is your analysis.

He is not giving up his priviledge. He is using this priviledge to invade and imitate women, even though it is distressing and worse for women.

Have you not read the threads on FWR apart all the women (let alone the children) who have been, harmed, undermind and side lined by pretend women.

So if as you claim you are a feminist I suggest you exhibit this by showing solidarity with women.

Sadly there has always been a strand of "feminism" which goes for this winsome, I'm a nice feminist, a male ally stance. ie showing not upsetting men is more imporant that supporting women.

Funnily enough MN has provided a safe haven for all the women who think prioritising men over women is important because it shows they are nice. Its called Feminism "chat". You could go there and revel in your niceness and not have to deal with your double standard of it isn't nice that feminism shows that men are the problem.

Women as a sex class are oppressed by the male sex class.

And they never give that up.

If is the privildge of their male sex class that allows them to so easily demand that women should ehance their delusion at the expense of their lived reality as the oppressed sex class.

Its hardly feminist to say it doesn't bother me, so you shouldn't behave in a way that clearly shows that the dominant male culture is a relentless daily undermining of women.

What sort of "feminst" comes and tell women they cant be feminist because they dont think like you, whilst admitting you have never taken part in a discussion on the issue.

The arrogance.

If you chose to educate yourself you will find any number of threads who men insisting how than can be female has damaged women at work (to you know the number of employment court cases because men have intruded into women's spaces) the damage to children, Or maybe educate yourself by reading about the trans widows and the cost to them of male arrogance.

I am not vitriolic. I am expressing my sex class anger at the situation I have experience all my live. Or is this another, oh it just isn't nice if women are angry.

I think women aren't angry enough.

I think you are the one with a problem.

Take the male view of the world off your eyes and start recognising the worlld you are living in.

The OP has every right to be angry.

And so do I.

Because men keep on being shitty towards women.

As Women's Liberationists always used to say, aren't you aware of the men in your head (ie telling you how to think and not upset them)?

You're making a lot of assumptions about my feminism (including claiming I said you aren't one, which I never did?). I'm actually quite active in feminist spaces, which fully address the patriarchy, no punches pulled, and I'm very comfortable with that. We are not 'winsome' or 'nice.' But we are more concerned with men and societal misogyny than trans people.
I understand what you are saying, but pragmatically, realistically, it makes zero sense to me that a man would live his life the way you claim all trans women do. It's just not common sense. They'd have to be crazy to open themselves up to that, when society provides ample opportunities for men to victimise women without the hassle and prejudice!
You have every right to express your anger at the patriarchy, but I almost feel like the trans argument is a culture war wedge intentionally designed to splinter and distract us from bigger problems for women. Why else would we spend so much time & effort on such a tiny fraction of the population? It's suspicious to me.

Couldn't agree more.

The desire to totally control the narrative and to be abuse when trying to do.

I also think the issue just isn't that deep (not the whole trans / GC argument, I get that THAT is deep).

The crux of the matter is that the friend has expressed a viewpoint the OP hugely opposes and that it means they can no longer work together.

So don't work with them. It'd be a bigger issue if they were employees of a company and were forced to coexist. But they're not. Walk away.

Considering the person has gone public with a statement that they are now someone completely different, it's hardly an unreasonable stance!

Or are you doubting their authenticity??

The right to convene in women only groups without male presence
The right for single sex female only changing rooms without male presence
The right for single sex female only prisons separate to male inmates
The right for male crimes not to be recorded as female crimes.
The right for single sex female only refuge centres separate to males
The right for single sex female only hospital wards
The right for single sex female only sport
The right for single sex female only categories in awards and sponsorship

Literally anything that is labelled for women only, we have the right for it to be for women only, not also open to men who self identify as female.

I guess from my perspective, I don't understand that. It wouldn't bother me at all if a trans woman were part of any of those scenarios, especially considering how small a demographic it is (although I do understand why you might feel differently). My view is that women's rights should be elevated to reach human rights (freedom from discrimination, from violence, etc.), not human rights brought down to meet women's rights. I fully get why this is emotive for a lot of people, because women deal with so much injustice and pain. But to me it seems like a strangely niche side quest from the most severe ways we continue to fail women as a society, ie the reasons we need single sex spaces to begin with, that single sex spaces have not fixed.

That’s what I thought with my ex. Nope. Total capitulation, including stating I now believed he was fully female and I was now a lesbian….

So what human rights would transpeople lose?

The gender critical position is worth of respect in a democratic society. Tell him you are gender critical and that while you will do your best to accommodate his preferences out of professional respect, human beings can't change sex. Then let him decide whether he wants to remain working on the project under those conditions.

Honesty is always the best policy.

As a feminist it doesn't bother you that men are in womens single sex spaces as long as those men say they are women?

About your project, your colleague is highly likely to 'move on' from his traditional field of expertise and be concentrating fully on his new trans life.
He might volunteer this or you could nudge and use the 'bekind ' approach, in a let him have the space to explore his new attitude to life without being dragged back to the old hobby.
Frame it as Hairy Dave's decision when you look for a new collaborator.
But keep notes about conversations because when the ne' becoming a woman' project doesn't unlock all hopes and dreams and riches, he might turn back bitterly.

That’s exactly what I was going to suggest. I think he’ll try and debate and persuade with his newly found zeal, and you just say you’re not interested in discussion, those are your legally held beliefs. That way you’re putting the onus on him to decide whether to end or continue. If you continue, you’ve made your stance clear, so hopefully less awkwardness. If he terminates then it’s his choice to be non inclusive of those with GC beliefs.

Im doubting that coming out as trans changes who you are.

This friend said they would like people to use she/her pronouns. They may still have the same interests and hobbies, values and morals.

They arent in my mind any more "someone completely different" than if a previously heterosexual friend said i actually want people to know Im in a same sex relationship now. Being trans is part of this person's identity it doesnt make them a different person.

And even if elements of them change, elements of people constantly evolve age, beliefs, circumstances influence your beliefs, interests and priorities and can change them. So small changes happen all the time

As you say that you understand how other women feel about men in their spaces, and it “doesn’t bother you”, then as yours is the minority view, women’s spaces should be single sex, shouldn’t they?