Friend shocks me by suddenly saying he's female. How to handle this?

[MiffedatMP]

A month ago a male co-researcher and friend I have known for 10 years, "came out as trans" by posting a couple of pics of himself on FB wearing eyeliner and studs in his newly pierced ears, and by changing his pronouns to he/she and saying he is a "trans female".

Just four weeks previously we spent the whole afternoon together and he did not breathe a word about this. He is 45, tall, broad-shouldered, slim-hipped and has angular, very masculine facial features. He looked and acted exactly the same as I have always known him: completely male in looks, speech, mannerisms, dress, etc. Therefore his announcement has come as a complete shock and, to be honest, at first I thought he was playing a prank.

Later this year we are supposed to begin a joint project which entails working closely together for months and I just don't know how to handle the situation. I've been wondering how long I can avoid ever referring to him by any pronoun - easy when it's just the two of us but the moment I have to refer to him as "he" or "her" to another person I am going to have to make a choice. I'm already worrying about this eventuality because it is bound to happen. Also on the project itself... there may be some wording which refers to him by a pronoun and again, I have to make a choice. I don't see how I can get out of this awkward situation. If I refer to him as "she" then I am sort of announcing that I am going along with this nonsense, and if I call him "he" then obviously this is going to cause massive fall out between us. He might storm out and the project abandoned, possibly after many weeks of work.

Even if I can manage to avoid the pronoun thing, how can I stay silent or dodge the subject if he looks me right in the eye and tells me he's now female? He hasn't yet changed his name but if he does I just don't think I can bring myself to call him by a female name.

I thought the easiest thing would be to just cancel the project, but that would make it look like I cancelled "just because he's trans", making me look like the baddie, losing his friendship forever and risking him smearing my good name around our small town, among our many mutual acquaintances, with goodness knows what social/business/friendship repercussions. Ditto if I replace him with someone else - I'd have to give him a reason, which, again, will get me into some kind of trouble, name-called, cancelled, hated because there are quite a few punitive activists where I live.

I understand now why people go along with it - because the alternative is life-changing, possibly life-ruining.

I just really, really wish he hadn't done this because it's made things so awkward.

What would you do?

Thing is, if you don't cover your shoulders that doesn't potentially lead to a situation where you get screamed at/receive death and rape threats/are physically attacked/lose your job.

Also, the argument that there are very few trans people isn't convincing. You only need one, in any situation, to change everything. One trans-identifying male in a female sports competition takes the prize from every other woman and girl, and tells all other women and girls coming up through the ranks that organising their life around this effort might not be worth it because years of striving will go to waste if one man decides he wants their prize. And if you don't personally care about sport, and can't understand why it's important for other people, one male in a women's prison impacts every single, most-vulnerable, woman there.

Yes. Feminism is about equality, ie how women used to not be allowed to have bank accounts, or how sadly we are still not seen as equipped for careers or leadership. If trans men can use "men's spaces" then there is no inequality. The question then becomes if a single-sex space is an accommodation towards equality, like a ramp for wheelchair users. What, then, is the accommodation that women don't have without it?

Potentially, yes, I agree with you. That would depend on whether a, mine is actually the minority view. afaik there's been no referendum on this. And b, whether trans people have accommodation to make sure they have equal access to everything they need as well.

But isn’t fighting for trans peoples accommodations what Stonewall et al should have been doing all along? Rather than bullying women into giving up their rights, wants and needs? If “rights aren’t pie” then why does giving trans people the right to access spaces designated for the other sex remove the other seeds rights to a single sex space? Why should the desire of a TIF to access mens spaces trump the right of men to have a single sex space ? Would you be in favour of TIF being sent to male prisons, psych wards and changing rooms? Do you think they would be safe?

Well, as his been explained many times, there are categories of women who need single sex spaces to fully participate in daily life. Why does the desire of a man to access female spaces trump their right to a single sex space?

But women are the oppressed group within patriarchy. We don’t have equality, let alone equity (which is actually what is needed), so giving away the small gains towards equity that women have made to a subset of men (many of whom don’t need than and are happy to benefit from patriarchy when it suits them- look at Phillip Bunce and Eddie Izzard for just two examples) just sets us all back.

Would you use similar arguments to say that white people should be allowed to access spaces and programmes that have been created for people of colour? If not, why not?

You seem to be starting from the premise that there is symmetry. Transwomen in women's spaces is very different from transmen in men's spaces, as evidenced recently by the awful case of the transman being put on a male psychiatric ward and raped within an hour of her arrival. However, men and women may both want and need their own single-sex spaces.

The For Women Scotland Supreme Court case started with the Scottish government moving to address the underrepresentation of women on public boards - you yourself mention women in careers/leadership roles - but then saying that any man who said he was a woman could take one of those "women's" places.

I don't see how your feminism can include men taking rights and places away from women.

Access to those spaces at all? For example, if a trans woman can't use the woman's toilet or the man's, what are they supposed to do? Therefore, they don't have equality, practically or legally. A solution would be to have gender-neutral spaces, imo would be fine but unfortunately the infrastructure isn't there yet.

Again, why were stonewall and all the trans charities and allies not sorting this? That should have been their goal from the start. Transpeople need to take it up with them. It’s not women’s fault that trans people were let down by their allies.

No, there hasn’t been a “referendum”. There has been polling and consistently the message is the same and the trend for supporting these men in women’s spaces is a downward one. The first poll was 2018 and there have been regular polls ever since. Is that good enough, or is the fact that many women don’t consent felt to be enough here?

I think if you are willing to call a man she it is an all or nothing thing. You can’t pick and chose. You can’t complain when a male rapist is called she or criticise when someone says ‘her penis’. It is not any women’s fault that the worst men have been calling themselves women, but as they are allowed to it’s a problem which affects everyone.

It's more analogous to covering my shoulders in church even though I'm not Catholic. It's just being respectful.

That's a choice you make when entering a Catholic church. It's more analogous to a Muslim co-worker insisting you cover your hair at work where you have no choice.

Obviously not true (hence why they're your ex, I assume). But irrelevant in the public sphere. The chromosomes of the people we interact with in public or at work aren't anything to do with us.

It’s not about “chromosomes”, it’s about sex. Male people/female people. Why are you spouting TRA talking points and claiming to be neutral?

Indeed.

For true equality should we get rid of all single sex spaces? Mixed sex prisons perhaps for true equality between men and women?

These arguments are borne from deep naivety.

Just wondering - and I've added to it I know - if it is deep naivety, or if we are once again being thrown golden apples to be less helpful/relevant to the OP.

When the arguments are made in general, in good faith, they come from deep naivety. I won’t comment on individuals.

I'd just go quiet, don't message him, comment or like, and unfollow him so you don't see his nonsense, but stay connected so it doesn't look like you've deliberately unfriended. Then if he reaches out to ask about project, you could send a short message at that time saying "abc project has been postponed as other things have come up that I need to prioritise right now" and if he pushes on what these other things are, you could just say other work or personal stuff, keeping it vague. That would be the best approach overall I think.

So if you can’t define what a woman is… how do you know which issues affect them more?

All this dismissive 'how does it bother you' and 'it's just polite' bollocks. It's such a privileged position to take.

It bothers me because I find it really difficult to lie. This may be due to neurodivergence but whether or not it is (diagnosis in progress) I also don't want to lie. Calling someone I perceive as a man 'she/her' is lying. It upsets me quite a lot to be forced to lie about something I think is important for safeguarding and safety of women and children

If I'm forced to lie, even by just societal pressure, that tells me I'm worth less and my feelings are worth less (my upset at lying) than a man's feelings. That makes me feel quite shit, honestly.

I also am going through the menopause which means I struggle to remember all the things that are absolutely crucial in my life. I don't have the mental space to remember something new, I just don't. I have multiple alarms and multiple notes on my phone to remind me of things already (and no memory there left either). I don't have the mental space to stop using English the way I've used it for 40+ years. I need to prioritise things that are actually important like my children and my family caring responsibilities and my paid job.

It shows a hugely offensive disrespect for the lived reality of MANY women, particularly working class women, who are constantly juggling multiple responsibilities for actual human lives to act as if this additional mental load is nothing.

The same EHRC guidance is supposed to also consider the longterm impact of menopause on women. But it's not just the menopause is it? It's the menopause on top of the overwhelming amount of both badly paid and unpaid work that overwhelmingly women (and some men) do at this age.

Maybe if your Mum does all your cooking, cleaning and washing, pays all your bills and you have minimal adult responsibilities then you have plenty of time to thought police your own utterances and then it's not a big deal FOR YOU. But if you're the Mum doing all the above, holding down a job, caring for an elderly relative with dementia for whom you already need to alter your communication then it's a massive fucking ask, frankly.

I'm already calling all my children by each other's names all the time and those are the people I love the most. It's completely unconscious and unintentional but it happens. It's hard work remembering names these days, let alone special pronouns on top.

This is also why this shit is a class issue. And why working class people generally have no time for it at all. It's a middle-class luxury belief and a middle-class luxury demand of other people who are implicitly placed in the position of 'lesser' because there is no mutual understanding or respect.

Theoretically, yes, the amount of violence in prison is shocking and unnecessary. Practically speaking, no. For one thing, a trans man would be in serious danger at a men's prison! It might be one of those cases where prisoners need individual protections. Given the small number of trans people and even smaller number of trans offenders, that shouldn't be too expensive. I wouldn't myself be concerned about a trans woman convicted of a nonviolent crime. But I don't think people should be able to transition for the first time in prison. Nobody's going through the hassle of transition just for access to a changing room. But they could easily do it to get better treatment in prison! When we go to prison we revoke some of our rights anyway.

So if it shouldn’t bother women having men using female spaces as “it’s not a big deal”, then surely it shouldn’t bother TIM using male spaces? Why is it no big deal for women having to share with men, but a life and death matter for a TIM to use male spaces?

The question asked was should we abolish single sex prisons for equality and you said theoretically yes. Are women safer in a female only prison or a mixed sex prison?

Trans identified women are placed in womens prisons in the UK