Hamas sexual violence on 7th October attack. Content warning.

[ArabellaScott]

A new investigation has shared more information on details of Hamas' atrocities.

I do urge caution when reading, and don't if you are feeling fragile.

'An independent, Israeli investigation has published harrowing details of "systematic, widespread" sexual violence by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups during the attacks on 7 October 2023, and against hostages.
The 300-page report concludes that rapes, sexual assault and sexual torture were intended "to maximize pain and suffering".
While the UN and others have published reports on sexual violence during the attacks – in which about 1,200 people were killed and 251 taken hostage – this is the most comprehensive.
It draws on 430 filmed interviews with survivors and witnesses, more than 10,000 photographs and videos filmed by attackers, and official records and material from attack sites.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgz9k7pzggo

I have, right here, in case any of them stumble in. You're welcome.

Dressfinder et al doing a great job of peaking people who were in any doubt that pro-Palestine activism has an anti-semitism problem.

Oh there are plenty of people who don't know what is going on 'over there'. There are people who chant 'from the river to the sea' who don't actually know what river or sea they are talking about. There are plenty of people who couldn't point to Israel on a map. And others who tell Israelis to 'go back to Poland'. They are so ignorant that they don't actually know where Israelis are from.
They are so ignorant they have no knowledge at all of history.
But they have an opinion, and march in favour of a intifada, without knowing what that means either.
And they make disgusting comments about Israelis being untruthful about the rapes etc.

Hopefully!

I too am bemused that Dressfinder thinks they are coming across as a rational source of quality data.

I’ll condemn all sexual violence whoever commits it and that includes any sexual violence committed by the IDF.

However if we were talking about atrocities committed by the IDF I would not try and justify them by saying ‘Hamas does it too’.

I would not justify an Israeli soldier committing rape because their family or friends were raped, kidnapped or murdered on Oct 7th or because their sister was blown up on a bus in Tel Aviv.

I would condemn the sexual violence without any whataboutery and would not try and score cheap points and antagonise other posters in a conversation and about heinous, barbaric sexual violence.

What I don't undestrand about the Hamas apologists is why they think Hamas would launch this sadistic crime against humanity. It was unprovoked, tactically timed to subvert the alliance between Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Did they think Israel would turn the other cheek. They couldn't have expected anything less than the lauch of a fierce retaliation.
Did Hamas care about the suffering they would bring on their women and children? Not a jot; after all they had their tunnels to run to, no bomb shelters for civilians.
I'm reminded of the Sting song ,'I hope the Rusians love their children too'
Hamas does not love their children, or only if they're martyred.

Do people who come on here and derail thread after thread about Israeli or Jewish suffering, really not realise that they are demonstrating rampant anti-Semitism?

It has now become impossible to have a conversation about British Jewish (or any other nationality of Jewish people) or Israeli suffering without this happening. Everyone who is not in their small, closed world can see this revolting tactic for what it is.

At no point have I justified what Hamas have done.
I asked one user if Hamas was justified, based on their comment that they would have Gaza razed to the ground if it were their daughter - to point out how horrific what they said was.

What Hamas did was disgusting.

And your baiting is not.

No, I see no anti-Semitism here. But I do see that word bounded around a lot.

Just to make my opinions clear.

I do not conflate zionism and Judaism.
I do not believe that Jews had or have it coming (or Zionists for that matter).
I respect the rights of Jewish people to exist and to practice their religion.
I believe that the rise in antisemitic attacks in the UK is unjustified and unjustifiable.

I'm not anti-Semitic.
Nothing I have done or said is anti-Semitic.

And where do you stand on believing the accounts of named witnesses and survivors of October 7?

I respect the rights of Jewish people to exist and to practice their religion.

Well, aren’t you generous.

The APPG noted that most victims were killed. So there are few survivors to offer testimony.

Well that's the basis of anti-Semitism, isn't it?
Not respecting the rights of Jewish people to exist and to practice their religion. That's what it actually means.

Do you believe Israel should exist?

Exactly. Which gives an easy get out for people like Dressfinder who can say that the rescuers, investigators and morgue attendants are agents of the state. But the named survivors of Nova cannot be erased, unless you simply don’t believe Jewish/Israeli men and women.

Nope. See above, my point about anti Zionism.

So what would happen to the population?

In what way is believing a Jewish state should not exist ‘respecting the rights of Jewish people to practise their faith’?

But you don’t think Israel should exist.
What would happen to the Israelis in that case?
And, as already asked, is there any other state in the world that you think shouldn’t exist?

They would continue to live in the occupied land of Palestine, or they could leave it they choos. They wouldn't be prisoners. The government would be dismantled, the UN would handle a transition.
The people of the land, all of them, not just the Israelis, would be given equal rights, opportunities and accesses.
Stolen land/homes would be returned to the Palestinians.
New government would be elected blah blah etc.

That's the ideal anyway.

Anti Zionism isn't anti Jewish.
It's not anti everyone who lives in Israel.
It's anti the ethnostate that is dominating the land and killing relentlessly.

The people of the land, all of them, not just the Israelis, would be given equal rights, opportunities and accesses.

Who would govern.this Utopia?

So basically you are in favour of Israelis being subjected to another Holocaust. At this point you are showing your ignorance, you think that Hamas would allow Jews to survive, given that they continously state that their aim is to murder every Jew, everywhere.