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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please help me navigate the first stages of dating, with a conflict on trans issues (I'm a guy...)

115 replies

ConfessionalPiece · Yesterday 12:26

Name changed for obvious reasons.

Relevant background:

I’m male, divorced, and recently back on the dating scene after a relationship ended about three months ago.

I’m gender critical / sex realist and politically engaged (specifically on this issue, quite engaged). I care a lot about politics, debate and ideas. I also have strong ADHD and light autistic traits, which means I can be quite intense, direct, and I know I don’t always find grey areas easy.

So, I matched with a woman on a dating app recently. There was a very strong connection straight away. We had a long conversation the night we matched, then met the next day despite some distance between us. The date went very well, with real chemistry and intimacy.

Let’s call her Lady X.

There are some practical location issues, but nothing I would necessarily see as impossible if things developed.

The connection felt unusually strong, although I know it is very early days. We seem to have similar neurodivergent traits, and there was that sense of recognising something in each other which can be quite rare.

On my Tinder profile I had said I was genuinely interested in politics. She asked whether I was right wing or a Tory / Reform voter. I said I don’t really fit neatly into party labels, and that I’m more of an issues-based voter than someone tribal about one party.

Then this came up.

While chatting on messages, she mentioned she used to have an anonymous X account where she saw herself as being an ally to people getting abuse, mainly trans people. When I asked a bit more, it turned out this was around the time J.K. Rowling published her letter. Lady X said she had been pushing back against misinformation, scaremongering and bullying. When I asked more, she sent me a link to Mermaids’ response to J.K. Rowling.

I pushed back a little and said I think there are serious issues with Mermaids and that I wouldn’t automatically trust their framing.

This has left me unsure what to do.

I think this could potentially have legs. I also know I am not always easy to be in a relationship with. Partly that is because of how I see the world, partly because of ADHD/autism, although I am happy being who I am. It can just make relationships harder. So the idea of being with someone who genuinely “gets” some of that is very appealing. It could be brilliant. Or it could be a disaster.

I also know that people with our kind of brains can sometimes become very black and white about the world. I have had to work hard on this myself. Years ago, for example, I found it extremely difficult living in a world where people eat meat, because veganism felt so morally obvious to me. I have had to learn, slowly, to sit with ambiguity and difference. I still find it hard.

I am much better sitting with grey areas and ambiguity than I was in the past.

The issue is that I really don’t believe humans can change sex. I think sex matters in some contexts, and I see this as a serious feminist issue. I am struggling to work out whether this is something we could navigate.

Do we just avoid the subject? That seems unlikely to work, especially for me.

Do we have a proper discussion and see whether there is any meeting of minds? That could go well, or it could expose a complete incompatibility.

Do I walk away now and save everyone the trouble?

I want to be live-and-let-live. I genuinely want to respect differences of opinion. But when a difference of opinion touches on women’s rights and safeguarding, I find it much harder to treat it as just another political disagreement.

Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

I know this could go in Relationships, but I thought I might get a different steer here.

And yes, I do know this is only one date so far.

Maybe this is really about politics and values more broadly, and I’m focusing on the trans issue because it is currently so salient for me.

I’d really appreciate advice, especially from women here who understand the current debate.

Please be kind. I know I may be overthinking it.

OP posts:
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loaferr · Today 16:22

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 12:14

Cis just means "not trans".

Ever had "cis" shouted at you in the street or as someone beat you up? Been denied service in a shop because you were visibly cis?

Of course not. Appropriating the term "hate speech" to describe an adjective you don't agree with is deeply offensive to minorities and - yep - to women.

I'm afraid you're very out of touch. Terfs have lost most elections they stood in, becauas the vast majority of cis women just don't see "trans people existing" as a problem. Trans Mission and Trans Pride attracted tens of thousands, terf protests have to his people in to average 60.

In fact, most of us think privileged women with little else to worry about in their lives are dominating the public discourse, drowning out working-class female voices clamouring for real issues - rape culture, the removal of rape justice, institutional misogyny, the destruction of all services which once helped women, the cost of living crisis - to be discussed and remedied.

This is an echo chamber I'm afraid. And claiming ridiculous false victimhood because you disagree with an adjective shows just hyperbolic and elitist much of the terf movement really is.

You sound just like a very angry little man.

Funny how people aren't allowed to refer to trans people by their correct biological sex in case it offends them but others can refer to women as cis even when it offends them.

Mmmnotsure · Today 17:15

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 12:14

Cis just means "not trans".

Ever had "cis" shouted at you in the street or as someone beat you up? Been denied service in a shop because you were visibly cis?

Of course not. Appropriating the term "hate speech" to describe an adjective you don't agree with is deeply offensive to minorities and - yep - to women.

I'm afraid you're very out of touch. Terfs have lost most elections they stood in, becauas the vast majority of cis women just don't see "trans people existing" as a problem. Trans Mission and Trans Pride attracted tens of thousands, terf protests have to his people in to average 60.

In fact, most of us think privileged women with little else to worry about in their lives are dominating the public discourse, drowning out working-class female voices clamouring for real issues - rape culture, the removal of rape justice, institutional misogyny, the destruction of all services which once helped women, the cost of living crisis - to be discussed and remedied.

This is an echo chamber I'm afraid. And claiming ridiculous false victimhood because you disagree with an adjective shows just hyperbolic and elitist much of the terf movement really is.

privileged women with little else to worry about in their lives are dominating the public discourse, drowning out working-class female voices clamouring for real issues - rape culture, the removal of rape justice, institutional misogyny, the destruction of all services which once helped women, [my bold]

Please explain how these issues are addressed by eg having Mridul Wadhwa, a trans-identified man, which you would call a trans woman, be in charge of the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre. How did his behaviour - telling women they had to be prepared to involve males in their healing and to reframe their trauma, and refusing to inform a devastated rape victim who said she needed a female member of staff about a single-sex organisation down the road - help women in any way?

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 17:56

borntobequiet · Today 14:25

We aren't vestal virgins getting together to shower naked for goodness sake.

So vestal virgins are something else that you have no idea about.

I do so hate to see careless ignorance so blatantly displayed.

Oh right, so now Carry On Cleo doesn't count as a historical source?

Infamy! Infamy!

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 18:00

loaferr · Today 16:22

You sound just like a very angry little man.

Funny how people aren't allowed to refer to trans people by their correct biological sex in case it offends them but others can refer to women as cis even when it offends them.

Well, I'm a cis mum, but I'm sure Napoleon would take it as a compliment to sound like me.

Calling trans people slurs and deadnaming them is done with malice, and the intention to harm. It's deliberately disrespectful, reflective of the huge power gap between cis and Trans people.

Wgereas cis is an adjective.

Once again, the rule is: have you had it shouted at you in the street? Has it ever been used as a term of abuse?

Not liking an adjective isn't hate speech. Being intolerant and disrespectful of minorities, is hate speech. Happy to help!

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 18:03

Mmmnotsure · Today 17:15

privileged women with little else to worry about in their lives are dominating the public discourse, drowning out working-class female voices clamouring for real issues - rape culture, the removal of rape justice, institutional misogyny, the destruction of all services which once helped women, [my bold]

Please explain how these issues are addressed by eg having Mridul Wadhwa, a trans-identified man, which you would call a trans woman, be in charge of the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre. How did his behaviour - telling women they had to be prepared to involve males in their healing and to reframe their trauma, and refusing to inform a devastated rape victim who said she needed a female member of staff about a single-sex organisation down the road - help women in any way?

Yep, there we go. Cheers for.proving my point.

Wearenotborg · Today 18:05

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 18:00

Well, I'm a cis mum, but I'm sure Napoleon would take it as a compliment to sound like me.

Calling trans people slurs and deadnaming them is done with malice, and the intention to harm. It's deliberately disrespectful, reflective of the huge power gap between cis and Trans people.

Wgereas cis is an adjective.

Once again, the rule is: have you had it shouted at you in the street? Has it ever been used as a term of abuse?

Not liking an adjective isn't hate speech. Being intolerant and disrespectful of minorities, is hate speech. Happy to help!

Yes and yes. And the only man who ever offered me violence and abuse was a trans identified male. How are men a minority? Ok they’re slightly below the numbers of women but not enough to call them a minority surely

Wearenotborg · Today 18:10

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 18:03

Yep, there we go. Cheers for.proving my point.

So go on, explain how not allowing women single sex rape crisis centres benefits them? How does locking women up with men in prisons help those women? Or do their feelings and needs not matter? You’re sounding very like Andrew Tate at the moment

Wearenotborg · Today 18:10

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 18:03

Yep, there we go. Cheers for.proving my point.

So go on, explain how not allowing women single sex rape crisis centres benefits them? How does locking women up with men in prisons help those women? Or do their feelings and needs not matter? You’re sounding very like Andrew Tate at the moment

Mmmnotsure · Today 18:39

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 18:03

Yep, there we go. Cheers for.proving my point.

I have absolutely no idea what your argument is at this point.

Justme56 · Today 19:00

Mmmnotsure · Today 18:39

I have absolutely no idea what your argument is at this point.

I think the argument is that if Fred on Monday (who is one of the bad guys because he is a cis man) calls himself Freda (a Transwomen) on Tuesday, he now she is a completely different person and part of an oppressed minority. I think that’s the gist of it.

ArabellaScott · Today 19:31

I'm baffled that if a woman complains about sexual assault at the hands of a transwoman she is called names, and told she's ignoring rape culture.

We know who commits sex crime- its men, whatever they wear and whatever they call themselves.

And being further harmed by a man who has falsified his way into the role of a counselor is insupportable.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 20:46

Bla bla bla I’m just a cis mum. Sure, whatevs.

DialSquare · Today 20:50

🙄

Please help me navigate the first stages of dating, with a conflict on trans issues (I'm a guy...)
TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 21:26

Mmmnotsure · Today 18:39

I have absolutely no idea what your argument is at this point.

I'm aware. And unsurprised.

Wearenotborg · Today 22:42

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 21:26

I'm aware. And unsurprised.

I think you were explaining how men are an oppressed minority…..

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