Please help me navigate the first stages of dating, with a conflict on trans issues (I'm a guy...)

[ConfessionalPiece]

Name changed for obvious reasons.

Relevant background:

I’m male, divorced, and recently back on the dating scene after a relationship ended about three months ago.

I’m gender critical / sex realist and politically engaged (specifically on this issue, quite engaged). I care a lot about politics, debate and ideas. I also have strong ADHD and light autistic traits, which means I can be quite intense, direct, and I know I don’t always find grey areas easy.

So, I matched with a woman on a dating app recently. There was a very strong connection straight away. We had a long conversation the night we matched, then met the next day despite some distance between us. The date went very well, with real chemistry and intimacy.

Let’s call her Lady X.

There are some practical location issues, but nothing I would necessarily see as impossible if things developed.

The connection felt unusually strong, although I know it is very early days. We seem to have similar neurodivergent traits, and there was that sense of recognising something in each other which can be quite rare.

On my Tinder profile I had said I was genuinely interested in politics. She asked whether I was right wing or a Tory / Reform voter. I said I don’t really fit neatly into party labels, and that I’m more of an issues-based voter than someone tribal about one party.

Then this came up.

While chatting on messages, she mentioned she used to have an anonymous X account where she saw herself as being an ally to people getting abuse, mainly trans people. When I asked a bit more, it turned out this was around the time J.K. Rowling published her letter. Lady X said she had been pushing back against misinformation, scaremongering and bullying. When I asked more, she sent me a link to Mermaids’ response to J.K. Rowling.

I pushed back a little and said I think there are serious issues with Mermaids and that I wouldn’t automatically trust their framing.

This has left me unsure what to do.

I think this could potentially have legs. I also know I am not always easy to be in a relationship with. Partly that is because of how I see the world, partly because of ADHD/autism, although I am happy being who I am. It can just make relationships harder. So the idea of being with someone who genuinely “gets” some of that is very appealing. It could be brilliant. Or it could be a disaster.

I also know that people with our kind of brains can sometimes become very black and white about the world. I have had to work hard on this myself. Years ago, for example, I found it extremely difficult living in a world where people eat meat, because veganism felt so morally obvious to me. I have had to learn, slowly, to sit with ambiguity and difference. I still find it hard.

I am much better sitting with grey areas and ambiguity than I was in the past.

The issue is that I really don’t believe humans can change sex. I think sex matters in some contexts, and I see this as a serious feminist issue. I am struggling to work out whether this is something we could navigate.

Do we just avoid the subject? That seems unlikely to work, especially for me.

Do we have a proper discussion and see whether there is any meeting of minds? That could go well, or it could expose a complete incompatibility.

Do I walk away now and save everyone the trouble?

I want to be live-and-let-live. I genuinely want to respect differences of opinion. But when a difference of opinion touches on women’s rights and safeguarding, I find it much harder to treat it as just another political disagreement.

Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

I know this could go in Relationships, but I thought I might get a different steer here.

And yes, I do know this is only one date so far.

Maybe this is really about politics and values more broadly, and I’m focusing on the trans issue because it is currently so salient for me.

I’d really appreciate advice, especially from women here who understand the current debate.

Please be kind. I know I may be overthinking it.

Just find someone else with more sensible opinions.

Oh. Is he allowed to lecture a woman on whether Transmen are Men? Which they’re not. You know being gender critical can include men and women yeah? Is that allowed? And if a man isn’t allowed to have an opinion on ‘feminist’ issues then why the fuck are men allowed in women’s spaces?

@ConfessionalPiece - as another guy using this board, all I'd say is don't go in full steam, leave space for differences, know your boundaries. And be ready to walk away.

It doesn't even need to go into feminism/womens rights tbh, one can start with common sense, pragmatism, honesty and whether one is willing to mouth absurdities or not. Then there are also the freedom of speech aspects.

....Logic, reason, critical thinking.

I mean I wouldn't even countenance a TRA as a potential partner tbh. Most people are not this stupid, it wouldn't be hard to find someone who is more reasonable.

I've just no patience for them anymore.

Thats a much nicer way of putting it than I did. 😂

Tell her you’re a TERF & you’d like to discuss the issues before progressing.

if she’s going to hiss & smoke at you better now than later.

im not dating, but if i start a new friendship I declare myself a TERF / sex realist before progressing too far.

good luck!

im happy to be friends will all sorts, but there is no point putting time & energy into people who are going to demonise you for your views.

My best friend has a trans son, and my DIL is very against JKR.

But you know what? We just don’t discuss those things EVER.

I love them but we have very different points of views, doesn’t make me love them any less. I don’t tell them about events I’ve been to or articles I’ve read and they don’t discuss their opinions, or call me a bigot.

Saying all that you’ve only had one date. You may have gone off her for something else by the third or fourth. Don’t overthink and just enjoy.

So she’s a woman, you’re a man, she’s TWAW, you’re not?

It’s your boundary to maintain, mate. I couldn’t be with someone who wouldn’t let me be my honest self (I’m TWAM). You need to find out where each other’s lines sit.

There’s also the critical thinking skills element to consider, if she won’t let you be you.

"Maybe this is really about politics and values more broadly, and I’m focusing on the trans issue because it is currently so salient for me."

Nail on head.
Thanks for your brilliant OP. This discussion particularly appeals to me because over the years I have come to the conclusion that politics is downstream from personality so in my view a person's politics is relevant to a relationship succeeding. Whilst that doesn't necessarily mean a couple need to align completely (I do believe conservatives can align with progressives) what is a sticking point for me is if there's no alignment on equality in human rights. Pro life men that essentially don't think women are entitled to bodily autonomy are a red flag for example. How can this person truly respect me if he essentially doesn't believe I should have the same rights as him?

Trans rights are more complicated because one can justifiably still hold the belief that trans people are entitled to human rights but as these rights can sometimes conflict with women's rights a practical compromise needs to be found. What's untenable in my view is to make the argument that trans people are delusional. IE there is no legitimacy in their claims that they are more behaviourally, psychologically & culturally more like women than men in terms of their inborn personality traits. That's not a claim they can change sex rather a claim about psychology. Of course changing sex is different from changing biological sex traits which trans people can do.

I would urge you to hear this individual out if not for anything other than to understand where she is coming from out of curiosity particularly what values underpin her politics. You might be surprised to learn its from a very noble place that points to a high regard for human decency & not some irrational militant activist stereotype. If your'e worried about her being 'kind' rather than rational, push back, ask on what evidence she bases her conclusions & then you will be able to properly assess the rationality of this individual & whether you can live with the way she understands the world. You aren't committing to a relationship by exploring its potential for success.

Denying yourself an opportunity to confront your own views lest they be uncomfortable is simply cowardice & as such unsuitable relationship material.

@EmilyinEverton "You might be surprised to learn its from a very noble place that points to a high regard for human decency"

I think that's more likely to be the case - that's very often where it comes from isn't it?

It wouldn't change how I felt about the practicality of single sex spaces though, or sex based rights.

Yeah, but it's not a competition either.

But on the topic of the OP, I'm usually OK as long as we can agree to disagree. Unless they're a neo nazi or something really unsavoury.

If somebody isn't really clued up on all the various dogma and perhaps had a trans friend who when growing up it's easy to see how they might be sympathetic.

And I'm defo on the GC side but some of the stronger proponents can be a bit monomaniacal.

Sure. Each to their own. Different people have different limits to what they tolerate as a threat & how they understand what an actual threat is. Given that most sexual assaults are committed by someone known to the victim & either in the victims/perpetrators home or in the workplace, many wouldn’t consider public toilets/change rooms a serious threat particularly given these places are usually very busy & as such don't afford perpetrators the privacy they require to commit crimes.

As I mentioned, it's not so much the issue but what priors a person utilises to tackle issues that the OP should be more concerned with. Is the person incapable of being open to a broader view on the human experience or are their views underpinned by irrational biases or limited understanding? Do they only apply confirmation bias to their research/evidence or are they capable of considering views that confront their biases?

Maybe it's just my personal preference & probably because I'm an old school feminist where fear of men shouldn't prevent my freedom or theirs. Realistically, if people were at all serious about the threat of men in private spaces they would demand segregated work places & to be chaperoned at all times elsewhere because that's where the substantial threats are.

Do you mean like the people in this picture?!

If you are two basically good people having a difference of opinion on quite a niche issue, I think that’s fine, and it would be a shame to discard your new relationship for such a reason.

However, I would try to understand more about the anonymous twitter account. If Lady X was using this to bully and harass people, that’s quite another matter. Such a combination of malice and cowardice should be an instant red flag.

I’m of the same opinion as you OP , that people can’t change sex, etc. many would consider me a terf as I think men should stay out of women’s spaces, sports, etc. now dh seems to agree with me.

but if dh turned round and said “oh be kind, what does it matter if a bloke in a dress thinks he’s a woman and is in the changing room” I would obviously have a robust conversation with him why this is a problem but I could also carry on in a relationship with him while disagreeing with him.

if he was leaping around saying “the only good terf is a dead terf” and going on marches then i wouldn’t be able to be in a relationship with him.

so in answer to your question, depends how far apart your views are.

Realistically, if people were at all serious about the threat of men in private spaces they would demand segregated work places & to be chaperoned at all times elsewhere because that's where the substantial threats are.

Erm … No.

What's untenable in my view is to make the argument that trans people are delusional. IE there is no legitimacy in their claims that they are more behaviourally, psychologically & culturally more like women than men in terms of their inborn personality traits. That's not a claim they can change sex rather a claim about psychology. Of course changing sex is different from changing biological sex traits which trans people can do.

Many trans people claim to believe they have literally changed sex. Its a foundational tenet.

As laid out clearly here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5524131-watch-in-real-time-as-trans-reddit-turns-on-one-of-its-own-for-suggesting-that-maybe-they-are-biological-men-and-arguing-they-are-not-makes-them-look-unstable

This is the second recent thread where someone pro trans ideology has asserted that no one believes trans people have actually changed sex.

Until about 5 minutes ago, that's exactly what most people in the non GC camp were claiming. There was someone on practically every thread popping up to assert that (plus all the other websites/protesters/ talking heads).

Times they are a changing!

It's the 'that didn't happen' bit of the poem.

Here's the Reddit thread, from last week: https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1t0t604/trans_girl_says_were_all_biological_males/

Some sample comments:

'I was like girl, what the fuck do you think hormones do? Do you really think I’m a biological male after taking hormones?...'

'The idea that “trans people don’t change their sex” has set us back decades. So many trans people buying into creationist TERF rhetoric about how sex is some magical essence instilled in you at birth and cannot be changed, rather than a mosaic of characteristics that absolutely can be. '

'....we don’t change our gender identity, but we often do change our sex. '

Put simply, the vast majority of cis women are not in the least bothered by trans people.

Reciting obvious anti-trans talking points at someone you like, at this stage, will instantly lose her trust.

Women need to be able to trust men. That should be your priority - respecting her safety, opinions and boundaries.

We are scared of cis men. We don't trust them because we have all had bad experiences with them - every single one of us. She will be working out whether or not to trust you, right now.

She does not need a lecture on who she should fear, she's an expert in that. Far more than you will ever be. She also knows how she feels about the entirely fake panics of 'transing' kids and 'womanface'.

If you talk to her about trans children, you'll come across exactly as all men who do it. Men having an obsession with children's genitals may as well be carrying a big red flag to a first date, with "I think too much about children's genitals" written on it in big letters.

She will absolutely notice that.

Try asking people who aren't spending all dayunfathomably furious with trans people about this. They will give answers similar to mine.

Trans people are individuals, not a plague, hive mind or organised threat against women. Obsessing about them is irredeemably strange. Get yourself free of the hate cult and find some happiness.

Break free of constantly reading about and discussing a tiny minority you don't belong to, will rarely if ever meet and who are normal human beings. It isn't normal. Being happy is.

Good luck. Remember: cis women are in some of the greatest danger of their lives when they start a new relationship. We know this. We need to be able to trust you.