Do you avoid the bathroom if there is a transwoman?

[PeachyDaisy]

I’m going to an industry event next week and I know there will be a transwoman attending. Should I use the disabled bathroom to avoid an awkward encounter or just continue to use the women’s and hope not to run into them?

I wouldn't use the toilet with him in there and would walk back out if I happened to go in and he was there.

I would not use the disabled as I am not disabled and a disabled person would have a very long queue if every gc person did that. It feels similar to man in womens toilet.

If you feel intimidated by this particular transwomen I would try and avoid being there alone by going at same time as others. If it is just disagreeing with the principal i would have to let it go for work.

I would avoid using the facilities at the same time as them, yes. Even if I knew the person and was confident they weren’t a threat, I still wouldn’t use the facilities alongside them as I wouldn’t want to give the impression that I accept men in women’s spaces.

I wouldn’t make it obvious that I was avoiding them though, because of where you live and the fact that your legitimate feelings are not protected in law in Australia.

You know if some of the people with XX chromosomes use the same loos you are probably going to feel worse - people with beards and deep voices. If all that matters is XX chromosomes, it shouldn't bother you because by your definition they are women. Of course that leaves the problem of people who are born intersex - which facilities do you think they should use?

Then why do we bother having any single sex spaces at all?

The whole point is that men are a threat to women and girls, and men have sexually harassed, assaulted and raped women at conferences in the past so giving them more opportunities to do so is utter madness in my opinion.

That's quite a silly thing to say isn't it? It's clearly not an echo chamber, anyone reading the replies can see that.

Also if you look at the topic title you will see that this board is called feminism sex and gender.

So yes, you are correct to say anyone can post whatever they like, and that I don't own this board. Well done?

I would have thought those were pretty self evident things which don't need stated, and since as you pointed out I don't own this board, I can't actually enforce anything, let alone enforce an echo chamber.

I will admit that the posters I think of as actual feminists do tend to centre women of the adult human female type. They are the posters I was referring to as "on this board we acknowledge that", you know women advocating for other women.

You are of course free to disagree with me. I think that might be because we aren't in an echo chamber funnily enough! 😂

How do people cope with mixed sex toilets??! Maybe you don't have them in Aus but there's definitely places in the UK that do.

Are you disabled? If not no you can't use the disabled loo. If you are why are you actually asking if you should use the disabled loo?

People with a DSD are either male or female.

It really isn’t ‘you’, it is entirely an issue that they are there in the first place. So it is ‘them’.

By leaving, you are listening to your intuition and observing your personal boundaries.

Well 1 - you would and 2 - it should, and if it really doesnt its irrelevant. Feminism is about caring about ALL women and girls. Consent isn't tranferrable.

I had this argument with my woke SIL the other day. Her and my nieces were banging on about how they don't care, people are just living their lives, whats the issue - I said well you dont speak for all women and thats what feminism is all about. We centre women.

Then they started on about how transwomen and women and they care about everyone. To which I eyerolled and ended the convo. Clever, kind, lovely women too. I find it exhausting.

People with XX chromosomes who have beards and deep voices are women who have been taking large amounts of testosterone. They are still women though and entitled to use women’s spaces. Trans-identifying women are generally not a threat to women. Having said that, trans-identifying women who pass convincingly as male are much more likely to use the men’s facilities than the women’s so I’m not very likely to encounter them in women’s facilities.

People with DSDs are either male or female and should use the facilities for their sex.

Women shouldn’t even have to waste brain space, men shouldn’t fucking go in women’s bathrooms. Transwomen is a made up word, they are not a subset of women, they are a subset of MEN. The women on here belittling the OP for questioning whether she deserves single sex spaces are equally disgusting.

I don't think transwomen should use women's spaces, but toilets are not my main concern tbh. I wouldn't necessarily feel unsafe, but I would feel like it's intrusive.
I think you would just have to see how you felt at the time if that person was in there and the disabled loo was available at the same time.

Yeh not falling for that one. No matter how 'butch' a woman is she always looks like a woman. Always. And men dressed as women never pass. Ever. Not in real life. There are some up close who it takes a few seconds (very rare) but usually the moment they move, talk, you can tell. Every. single. time.
No Im not a doctor - 3 year olds know this.

To quote the amazing KJK - no Im not a vet either. Yet I know what a dog is.

The TRAs have done a great job trying to convince us that there are loads of secret passing trannies around. Its simply absolute bollox (pardon the pun).

This is the biggest echo chamber on mumsnet!

Thats why the TRA who sued glinner could infiltrate LWS as a detrans for a while then?

Well this milkshake has brought all the bingos to the yard hasn't it 😆

Ok then 😂

We disagree. Other people are also disagreeing about males going into female toilets.

If that isn't the direct opposite of an echo chamber I don't know what is.

Yes that's why TRA are famously never able to endlessly post here - oh wait!!!

you have to be a TRA. Who threatens to rape women with a splintery rolling pin and to scrape MN before you get banned here

trans Reddit on the other hand.....

I'm noticing the same old arguments from roughly a decade ago are doing the rounds again. So tedious.

How do people cope with mixed sex toilets??!

Women self-exclude. Which is why women campaigned for female only toilets in the first place.

Are you disabled? If not no you can't use the disabled loo.

Disabled toilets were created to meet the needs of disabled people. Female only toilets were created to meet the needs of female people. If a man goes in, it is no longer a female-only space.

All men need to keep out because they are not women. Just as non-disabled people should not use the disabled loo.

I used to work in a place where a trans identified man took the trouble to leave his own work area, cross the entire building and go upstairs, in order to use the main large women’s loos when he could have used a single gender neutral one right by his own location. Too fucking right I avoided him.

I had a new one for the bingo card recently. Lovely (but captured) SIL said that as a social worker I should care about all people and whilst I care about women why cant I care about transwomen too? This was in response to me saying this is a male problem for them to sort out. Not for womens spaces to be trampled on, or disabled people (she suggested trans should use those loos or people who are uncomfortable). I didn't like being told that I was a bad social worker for centreing women. We agreed to leave it there.

And of course it's not just about rape and sexual assault. As a PP said, we know men do all sorts of disgusting things in women's toilets. Voyeurism is probably the most common, and can extend as far as men placing cameras in the cubicles. It's particularly prevalent in South Korea, apparently.

What it comes down to is whether you think "trans women" represent a particular category of people who are exempt from the normal social rules that bind the rest of us, or whether you think they're simply a subcategory of men.

If the latter, then, no, obviously they shouldn't be in women's toilets, regardless of whether they're dangerous or not dangerous.

If the former, then there probably isn't any point arguing with you because you are committed to an entirely irrational and false belief.

So no man at work has ever done anything sexually inappropriate? Hmmm...