Do you avoid the bathroom if there is a transwoman?

[PeachyDaisy]

I’m going to an industry event next week and I know there will be a transwoman attending. Should I use the disabled bathroom to avoid an awkward encounter or just continue to use the women’s and hope not to run into them?

A couple of trans identifying males who used to post on here have done this and put the photos on social media. Pointing at the woman symbol on the door as if to say 'look where I am'. No woman would ever feel the need to do this.

If its no big deal who is in the cubicle next door, then these men can use the mens' toilets as its no big deal.

If the men are too scared to share with other men they should see a therapist to hold their trauma, and maintain sharing with the other men.

Knowing trans identifying men doesnt mean that we know what really motivates them, what goes through their minds and why they want to use women's spaces.

Just like we know lots of men, but we dont know their inner feelings.

As soon as a man enters a women only space, he is transgressing social norms. He's letting everyone know that he thinks rules dont apply to him. Thats not 'just existing' or ' just living their lives'.

Well said.

You want women to allow all and sundry into women’s spaces because it has no impact.

The only thing trans women have in common is that they’re all biological males. Pissing with the men was your default experience. You don’t think anyone should have an issue pissing with the opposite sex so stick to where you’re legally allowed (and always welcome).

How does what affect me?

If you mean how does it affect me personally to lose the right and presumption of single sex spaces then there are many ways in the same way it affects most women. Do you want me to list them?

The only women who don’t think it negatively affects them are the ones with no boundaries or privacy around strange men, no concept of the depravity of which some men are capable and an inflated view of their own self righteousness. I am not one of those and I don’t want my daughters to have fewer rights in that respect than I had growing up.

Similarly to the men wearing dresses protesting outside the EHRC offices by putting bottles of urine over their heads - I think they use it as a sort of ‘marking territory’

I saw a person that I perceived to be a man in a dress in the ladies toilets.

The "be kind, be inclusive" thing kicked in, so I didn't say anything and ignored him.

Then he sexually assaulted me with his penis.

That's how it affected me personally.

I've never heard of a woman attacking other women with her vulva in a ladies toilet. It's very much male pattern behaviour to use sex organs as a weapon to cause harm to women.

It's interesting isn't it, how often those arguing for male primacy over women's needs, rights and spaces, go straight to dumping responsibility on someone else. 'Hold that for me'. 'Create my reality for me'. 'Manage your needs and feelings so I don't have to manage mine'. It's an endless, childish running away from having to engage with anything in any depth, or do any work themselves,, throwing a few learned phrases as they run.

It is deeply unpleasant to see women feel they have to disclose highly personal, highly sensitive information to plead for equality of consideration and the right to say no. And to see yet again how they are treated when they do. Thankfully no woman needs to do this. They have legal rights, established precisely to protect women against those incapable of even basic social sensitivity.

I'm sorry this happened to you, @YorkshirePuddingsGreatestFan

I hope @swingingbytheseat reads that response and considers their glib attitude to women's safety.

I am sorry that happened to you.

Am so sorry that happened to you, and that even when we share incidents like this that we’ll get the “reframe your trauma” shite!!!

Which is always the job of the woman to do, to facilitate a male stranger, with an expectation that she must make effort and labour for his sake while he gets to do nothing but sit back and have everyone else run around after him. Binary sex based different standards, expectations, responsibilities and entitlements.

Major confusion here about what women are and what they are for. #notyourmum

Yes.

There is a whiff of 'oooh, were you sexually assaulted? Tell me about it in detail' about the questions, sometimes. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than being told 'that never happened'. Maybe it's the same thing.

Yes.
Talk about it = stop weaponising your trauma, reframe your trauma
Don't talk about it = it never happens

I’ve posted this before, but it’s worth repeating:

Amy E Sousa (psychotherapist “known heretic” on Insta and various other places) shared the following story, which I think is relevant here:

STORY: Principal in NC tells girls to "go somewhere else" if they don't like boys in their locker room.

This is the SAME OLD cultural playground script | grew up with: telling the girls that if they don't like what the boys are doing to ignore it, go away, or simply "boys will be boys."

What's actually happening in that playground (locker room) moment

A common scenario:

• One group (boys) escalates intensity-rough play, teasing, intrusion
• Another group (girls) signals discomfort
• Authority response: "If you don't like it, go somewhere else."

On the surface, that sounds like conflict avoidance. But underneath, it teaches two very different lessons at the same time:

To the ones crossing boundaries (boys):

• Your impulse doesn't need to be regulated-others will adapt around you
• External feedback (someone saying "stop") is optional, not meaningful

To the ones experiencing the boundary being crossed (girls):

• Your discomfort doesn't organize the environment—you must relocate yourself
• The solution is withdrawal, not response

So one side isn't required to develop internal brakes, and the other isn't supported in exercising external limits.

Why this matters (the deeper mechanism)

Healthy boundary development has two parts:

• Internal boundary: "I can feel my impulse and regulate it"
• External boundary: "I can respond when something crosses my line"

That playground message bypasses both:

• It removes the need for internal regulation in the initiator
• It removes the legitimacy of external response in the receiver

So instead of:

"Your behavior needs to adjust" and "Your signal matters"*

The system teaches:

"Boys expand, girls accommodate"

i was told I was playing trauma trumps and weaponising my trauma to excuse my transphobia.

Its worse than "If you dont like it, go somewhere else", because the female only toilet is the "somewhere else".

And then because there is nowhere else to go it becomes 'ignore and suppress your feelings'

And be asked how it affects me, personally.

and then when I explain be mocked and told to give my trauma to someone else to hold.

which is just a word salad of utter shite nonsense.

Which is a lot more learned phrase burble with no self awareness, that is basically a child's 'I want my own way, gimme' wearing an adult's borrowed and illfitting clothing.

If it wasn't for how really mindbogglingly cold and cruel it is - from a political lobby that never stop going on about 'kindness' and 'respect' (gimme, YOU do it, I don't wanna), it would be grimly funny.

Nooo. The words you need to use are
hysterical
frothing
pearl clutching

be a dear and use these so I can fill my bingo card and get my cheque firing the right wing conservatives

if it’s no bid deal who uses a toilet, why can’t the TIM use the male toilets?

After seeing several male celebrities who have been treated with puberty blockers and then oestrogen in the press lately being acclaimed as female, I am very sceptical that any male person will not be correctly identified as being male by female people over the course of their daily life. Then I also think of a past activist poster who also claimed he never female identifying his correct sex and that he had sluggish puberty, claim to have a DSD and transitioned 20-30 years ago, who is identifiable as male even in curated photos.

I suspect some very strong focus is applied to not notice female people’s reactions or a very heavily curated life with very limited inactions with strangers.

Things that both sexes do in toilets:

• pee
• poo
• wash hands, hopefully, but men less than women (in cubicles or communal areas)

Things that only women do in toilets:

• menstruate, including accessing sanitary products, which can often be heard in the next cubicle
• clean up menstrual flooding
• have miscarriages
• express surplus breast milk

Things that only men do in toilets (if you've ever heard of a woman doing any of these, please do tell; men here includes transwomen, and yes there is evidence)

• masturbate, in particular due to the presence of women in the next cubicle
• commit sexual assault
• film women (or men) in adjacent cubicles, or set up cameras for filming
• remove used tampons or sanitary towels from bins for sexual gratification
• remove used nappies from bins for sexual gratification

I'll add,
Things that only men who claim to be women seem to do in women's toilets:

• offer tampons to strangers

Do you know in advance which men will do the "things that only men do"? Could be any of them.

I’ll add:

Clean up child vomit off clothes, food spills.

Get changed between work shifts if needed. I have had to change between jobs where I have no time to go home to change. It is not unusual for people with two jobs to have to do this.