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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

STONEWALL REVERSE FERRET INCOMING

258 replies

Taytoface · 19/04/2026 07:47

So, it looks like their income tanking might have finally made them see that trans rights is not quite the gravy train they thought it was. They are now pivoting to getting compensation for gay veterans who were badly treated. And apparently JKR is a wonderful lady, just needs to be a wee bit more kind.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/apr/19/things-could-go-backwards-kezia-dugdale-on-safety-lgbtq-rights-and-the-future-of-stonewall

‘Things could go backwards’: Kezia Dugdale on safety, LGBTQ+ rights and the future of Stonewall

Exclusive: Former Scottish Labour leader says she feels more scared as a lesbian today and calls for a kinder debate on transgender issues

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/apr/19/things-could-go-backwards-kezia-dugdale-on-safety-lgbtq-rights-and-the-future-of-stonewall

OP posts:
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MarieDeGournay · 19/04/2026 09:46

For me, the only redemption for Stonewall would come from them admitting that they had abandoned lesbian and gay people to go with a fashionable, and presumably lucrative, fad.

Just imagine a world in which trans people had to set up their own campaigning groups from scratch, with no funding - thought they would never had faced the homophobia that the early Stonewall had to contend with.

What would such a trans campaigning group have looked like? what would its demands have been? its tactics? what would its reach have been? would it ever have convinced the public or the political establishment that trans people actually are denied basic human rights?

It was so much easier and more effective to use Stonewall, following the Dentons plan of action, especially:

  • Piggybacking on other causes: Attach trans rights to broader equality, diversity, or anti-discrimination initiatives to normalise them.
  • Strategic framing: Use language that resonates positively (e.g., “equality,” “human rights”) and avoid terms that may provoke opposition.
  • Youth mobilisation: Position young people as the face of reform efforts, emphasising innocence and urgency to gain public sympathy.
Analysis of the Dentons Document: A How to Manual - Women Speak Tasmania
EmpressaurusKitty · 19/04/2026 09:47

Trans Reddit have noticed & they’re pissed off. https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1spmuec/the_new_chair_of_stonewall_is_cozying_up_to_jk/

EmpressaurusKitty · 19/04/2026 09:53

MarieDeGournay · 19/04/2026 09:46

For me, the only redemption for Stonewall would come from them admitting that they had abandoned lesbian and gay people to go with a fashionable, and presumably lucrative, fad.

Just imagine a world in which trans people had to set up their own campaigning groups from scratch, with no funding - thought they would never had faced the homophobia that the early Stonewall had to contend with.

What would such a trans campaigning group have looked like? what would its demands have been? its tactics? what would its reach have been? would it ever have convinced the public or the political establishment that trans people actually are denied basic human rights?

It was so much easier and more effective to use Stonewall, following the Dentons plan of action, especially:

  • Piggybacking on other causes: Attach trans rights to broader equality, diversity, or anti-discrimination initiatives to normalise them.
  • Strategic framing: Use language that resonates positively (e.g., “equality,” “human rights”) and avoid terms that may provoke opposition.
  • Youth mobilisation: Position young people as the face of reform efforts, emphasising innocence and urgency to gain public sympathy.
Analysis of the Dentons Document: A How to Manual - Women Speak Tasmania

There was Press for Change, led by Christine Burns, who pushed for the umbrella term ‘trans’ for everyone from crossdressers & people with gender dysphoria who had surgery. They wanted to blur the distinctions so that women’s spaces would be open to all of them.

I think they were also heavily involved in getting the Hayley the transsexual storyline into Coronation St.

Thingybob · 19/04/2026 09:53

I wonder how long it will take before Stonewall are banned from all Pride events this year. 😂

Pleasealexa · 19/04/2026 09:53

The motivation will be entirely financial

I can imagine the white boarding for ideas on suitable causes to support that might improve their brand. They mention it's unpaid?

HoppityBun · 19/04/2026 09:56

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/04/2026 08:27

They posted this yesterday. Who can it possibly have been ensuring that the equality act was misunderstood? Stonewall have no idea

i think they are trying themselves from the shit show they created but it's waaay too late and everyone has the receipts

How can they have the brass nerve to say it doesn’t provide clarity. Perhaps they can explain which of the following they are unable or grasp:

265.We are aware that this is a long judgment. It may assist therefore if we summarise our reasoning.

(i) The question for the court is a question of statutory interpretation; we are concerned with the meaning of the provisions of the EA 2010 in the light of section 9 of the GRA (para 2).

(ii) Parliament in using the words "man" and "woman" in the SDA 1975 referred to biological sex (paras 36-51).

(iii) The 1999 Regulations, enacted in response to P v S, created a new protected characteristic of a person intending to undergo, or undergoing or having undergone gender reassignment. The 1999 Regulations did not amend the meaning of "man" or "woman" in the SDA 1975 (paras 54-62).

(iv) The GRA 2004 did not amend the meaning of "man" and "woman" in the SDA 1975 (para 80).

(v) Section 9(3) of the GRA 2004 disapplies the rule in section 9(1) of that Act where the words of legislation, enacted before or after the commencement of the GRA 2004, are on careful consideration interpreted in their context and having regard to their purpose to be inconsistent with that rule. It is not necessary that there are express words disapplying the rule in section 9(1) of the GRA 2004 or that such disapplication arises by necessary implication as the legality principle does not apply (paras 99-104).

(vi) The context in which the EA 2010 was enacted was therefore that the SDA 1975 definitions of "man" and "woman" referred to biological sex and trans people had the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

(vii) The EA 2010 is an amending and consolidating statute. It enacts group-based protections against discrimination on the grounds of sex and gender reassignment and imposes duties of positive action (paras 113, 142-149).

(viii) It is important that the EA 2010 is interpreted in a clear and consistent way so that groups which share a protected characteristic can be identified by those on whom the Act imposes obligations so that they can perform those obligations in a practical way (paras 151-154).

(ix) There is no indication in relevant secondary materials that the EA 2010 modified in any material way the meaning of "man" and "woman" or "sex" from the meanings in the SDA 1975 (para 164).

(x) Interpreting "sex" as certificated sex would cut across the definitions of "man" and "woman" and thus the protected characteristic of sex in an incoherent way. It would create heterogeneous groupings. As a matter of ordinary language, the provisions relating to sex discrimination, and especially those relating to pregnancy and maternity (sections 13(6), 17 and 18), and to protection from risks specifically affecting women (Schedule 22, paragraph 2), can only be interpreted as referring to biological sex (paras 172, 177-188).

(xi) We reject the suggestion of the Inner House that the words can bear a variable meaning so that in the provisions relating to pregnancy and maternity the EA 2010 is referring to biological sex only, while elsewhere it refers to certificated sex as well (paras 189-197).

(xii) Gender reassignment and sex are separate bases for discrimination and inequality. The interpretation favoured by the EHRC and the Scottish Ministers would create two sub-groups within those who share the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, giving trans persons who possess a GRC greater rights than those who do not. Those seeking to perform their obligations under the Act would have no obvious means of distinguishing between the two sub-groups to whom different duties were owed, particularly since they could not ask persons whether they had obtained a GRC (paras 198-203).

(xiii) That interpretation would also seriously weaken the protections given to those with the protected characteristic of sexual orientation for example by interfering with their ability to have lesbian-only spaces and associations (paras 204-209).

(xiv) There are other provisions whose proper functioning requires a biological interpretation of "sex". These include separate spaces and single-sex services (including changing rooms, hostels and medical services), communal accommodation and others (paras 210-228).

(xv) Similar incoherence and impracticability arise in the operations of provisions relating to single-sex characteristic associations and charities, women's fair participation in sport, the operation of the public sector equality duty, and the armed forces (paras 229-246).

(xvi) It is striking that the EHRC has advised the UK Government of the problems created by its interpretation of the EA 2010, which include many of the matters which we have discussed above, and has called for legislation to amend the Act. The absence of coherence and the practical problems to which that interpretation gives rise are clear pointers that the interpretation is not correct (para 247).

(xvii) The interpretation of the EA 2010 (ie the biological sex reading), which we conclude is the only correct one, does not cause disadvantage to trans people, with or without a GRC. In the light of case law interpreting the relevant provisions, they would be able to invoke the provisions on direct discrimination and harassment, and indirect discrimination. A certificated sex reading is not required to give them those protections (paras 248-263).

(xviii) We therefore conclude that the provisions of the EA 2010 which we have discussed are provisions to which section 9(3) of the GRA 2004 applies. The meaning of the terms "sex", "man" and "woman" in the EA 2010 is biological and not certificated sex. Any other interpretation would render the EA 2010 incoherent and impracticable to operate (para 264).

ArabellaScott · 19/04/2026 10:04

Call me naive, but up until now I hadn't realised to what extent Labour and Stonewall thread through each other.

Michael Cashman, Angela Mason, Ben Summerskill, Kezia Dugdale. Respectively founder, director, CEO, Chair of stonewall, and Labour MEP, Labour councillor, Labour Press officer/advisor and leader of Scottish Labour.

ArabellaScott · 19/04/2026 10:07

GreyskySexRealistsky · 19/04/2026 09:43

I think JKR just laughs at descriptions like 'toxic sewer of hate'. It makes the speaker sound like an angry teenager.

The trans 'debate' has really brought home to me how insults can lose their power fast when overused. Terf? Yawn. Right wing fascist bigot? Zzzzz..... They all sound like Rik from the Young Ones.

It's T shirt and username worthy, imo.

STONEWALL REVERSE FERRET INCOMING
Toseland · 19/04/2026 10:18

It's chilling that a year or two ago Stonewall stated that their focus was the next generation and here we have the head of a dangerous, underhand, lobby group married to the Education Secretary. Surely this is a conflict of interest?

RunningforSam · 19/04/2026 10:18

People who believe equality for trans people requires replacing the protected characteristic of sex with gender identity will inevitably see JKR’s stance as harmful to trans people. Some will fully acknowledge that she can hold these views without holding any hatred to trans people. Others will suggest that, whilst not necessary hateful, the willingness to advocate for a ‘harmful to trans people’ position shows a lack of compassion. Others will insist she hates trans people and wishes them harm.

My view is that these 3 positions directly correlate with the regard that is held for women. If I flip the above, I guess that makes me a Jolyon position taker in reverse!

ArabellaScott · 19/04/2026 10:30

'Dugdale supported the Scottish government’s gender recognition reform bill, which aimed to make it simpler and quicker for people to change their legal gender, including 16- and 17-year-olds. This was a move towards “self-ID”, removing the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
The law passed in Scotland in 2022 but was blocked by the UK’s Conservative-led government the following year.
I believed in it; I still do,” she said, but added that pushing for self-ID was “not top of the list” of Stonewall’s priorities. “We are an LGBT organisation, of course we’re going to be there for trans people, so that’s integral to who we are and what we do. But our priorities now are very much focused on things like securing justice for military veterans and compensation for what they’ve endured. We’re currently working very hard to ensure that there’s a ban on conversion therapy in this country, which is incredibly important.”'

My bold. Nothing has changed.

MarieDeGournay · 19/04/2026 10:37

ArabellaScott · 19/04/2026 10:07

It's T shirt and username worthy, imo.

I was going to complain about leaving out the '..sewer of...' in 'toxic sewer of hate' but then 💡sewer/sewer. ..
Very clever! Nearly too clever for me this early on a Sunday morning😄

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/04/2026 10:45

ArabellaScott · 19/04/2026 10:30

'Dugdale supported the Scottish government’s gender recognition reform bill, which aimed to make it simpler and quicker for people to change their legal gender, including 16- and 17-year-olds. This was a move towards “self-ID”, removing the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
The law passed in Scotland in 2022 but was blocked by the UK’s Conservative-led government the following year.
I believed in it; I still do,” she said, but added that pushing for self-ID was “not top of the list” of Stonewall’s priorities. “We are an LGBT organisation, of course we’re going to be there for trans people, so that’s integral to who we are and what we do. But our priorities now are very much focused on things like securing justice for military veterans and compensation for what they’ve endured. We’re currently working very hard to ensure that there’s a ban on conversion therapy in this country, which is incredibly important.”'

My bold. Nothing has changed.

Nope - they still want to stop therapists exploring exactly why a confused and unhappy 12 year old girl might decide she's a boy

StellaAndCrow · 19/04/2026 11:54

Thingybob · 19/04/2026 09:18

The sooner Stonewall goes under the better but I'll enjoy watching how this goes down first.

This is from Jolyon this morning

"I'm all for good faith engagement with people whose minds have been poisoned against trans people. But this is madness: JK Rowling is a toxic sewer of hate, aligned with fascists, and it's unforgivable for Stonewall to praise her"

And Jolyon reckons he used to be JKR's friend. Until she "changed".

We've all changed, Jolyon.

STONEWALL REVERSE FERRET INCOMING
Thingybob · 19/04/2026 12:03

StellaAndCrow · 19/04/2026 11:54

And Jolyon reckons he used to be JKR's friend. Until she "changed".

We've all changed, Jolyon.

Seems conclusive to me, he spoke to some unnamed people (EW? DR?) who said she's changed so that's it she's definitely changed.

I think that's an 11 year old girls logic not something you'd expect from a KC

nauticant · 19/04/2026 12:12

I do rather like S_onewall from that Reddit thread. Although I suppose that ought to be ReddiTTTTTTTTT.

Waitwhat23 · 19/04/2026 12:16

Toseland · 19/04/2026 10:18

It's chilling that a year or two ago Stonewall stated that their focus was the next generation and here we have the head of a dangerous, underhand, lobby group married to the Education Secretary. Surely this is a conflict of interest?

Particularly given the large of amounts of funding handed to Stonewall by the Scottish Government, of which Jenny Gilruth is expected to continue as an MSP -

https://www.yahoo.com/news/scottish-government-handed-stonewall-400k-154633504.html

Also worth mentioning the large amounts given to the (putting it politely) controversy mired LGBTYS -

www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202500476589/

Scottish Government handed Stonewall £400k in taxpayers’ money

SNP ministers have handed Stonewall, the controversial gay rights charity, more than £400,000 of Scottish taxpayers’ money, it has emerged.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/scottish-government-handed-stonewall-400k-154633504.html

EmpressaurusKitty · 19/04/2026 12:44

nauticant · 19/04/2026 12:12

I do rather like S_onewall from that Reddit thread. Although I suppose that ought to be ReddiTTTTTTTTT.

They’re talking about going to Pride in order to boo Stonewall. That would be hilarious.

It’s not enough to make me go, but I love the idea.

MyPearlViper · 19/04/2026 12:55

Oh yes!

NARRATOR: JK Rowling had never met Jolyon Maugham. They were never friends. Her close friends remained her close friends. Jolyon Maugham remained a fixated loon.

STONEWALL REVERSE FERRET INCOMING
ItsCoolForCats · 19/04/2026 13:31

Jolyon's fragile male ego has never recovered from JKR blocking him after he slid into her DMs.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 19/04/2026 13:40

I know I often link to reddit to get the other side of stories like this but it's very revealing - https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1spmuec/the_new_chair_of_stonewall_is_cozying_up_to_jk/

As far as they are concerned, Stonewall are and have always been nazis who hate trans people apparently

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 19/04/2026 13:46

EmpressaurusKitty · 19/04/2026 09:47

Doh I missed this by reading the thread backwards, you got there first :)

BiologicalRobot · 19/04/2026 13:52

I think they were also heavily involved in getting the Hayley the transsexual storyline into Coronation St.

I always thought Hayley was autistic, not trans 😯 When did the story writers admit she was brought in as trans? Right at the beginning or at the height of #nodebate? Sorry for the derail.

Wearenotborg · 19/04/2026 13:56

BiologicalRobot · 19/04/2026 13:52

I think they were also heavily involved in getting the Hayley the transsexual storyline into Coronation St.

I always thought Hayley was autistic, not trans 😯 When did the story writers admit she was brought in as trans? Right at the beginning or at the height of #nodebate? Sorry for the derail.

Hayley was always trans. We were all supposed to believe all trans identified men passed so easily and were gentle, kind souls who just wanted to live in peace.

EmpressaurusKitty · 19/04/2026 13:57

BiologicalRobot · 19/04/2026 13:52

I think they were also heavily involved in getting the Hayley the transsexual storyline into Coronation St.

I always thought Hayley was autistic, not trans 😯 When did the story writers admit she was brought in as trans? Right at the beginning or at the height of #nodebate? Sorry for the derail.

Very early on. I think there were nasty terfy relatives telling ‘Harold’ to put his trousers back on.

For a long time that character was most people’s only example of trans-identifying males & of course, was played by a woman.

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