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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jennifer Melle wins settlement from NHS

299 replies

RoyalCorgi · 13/04/2026 12:49

Haven't seen a thread about this anywhere else, but Jennifer Melle, the nurse who refused to refer to a convicted sex offender by his preferred pronouns, and was disciplined, has won a settlement from the NHS trust she works for.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2vlxdnnpqo

Nurse Jennifer Melle takes part in a show of solidarity with MPs and nurses on College Green outside the Houses of Parliament in Westminster, central London, place ahead of the NHS disciplinary hearing of Christian nurse Jennifer Melle on Tuesday.

Nurse in trans dispute win settlement from NHS employer

Melle was racially abused by a transgender woman at a hospital after she addressed them as "Mr".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2vlxdnnpqo

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AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 21:48

PoppinjayPolly · 13/04/2026 21:37

@AlwaysNuance can you clarify please? getting some kind of heightened response in that situation was pretty predictable
so it was Jennifer’s fault that he behaved like that?

Having learned more it appears the initial use of "Mr" on the phone call was an understandable error.

At this point the staff were all aware that this sick person was from a sex offender wing of a prison, that he was large, that he was shackled to two prison officers whose responsibility it presumably was to keep the staff and the other patients safe.

By the point of the phone error the trans person was apparently already angry, dysregulated, and upsetting other patients.

I don't think it was Jennifer's fault that he behaved like that either before or after her interaction with him; he is responsible for his own intolerable behaviour.

I do think it, however, wasn't the right or judicious moment to double down on the accidental use of the term "Mr" and justify it, to someone who was never going to deal with that well, even if not ill and not already dysregulated. I think it was predictable that an outburst of some sort would follow. That does not make it right or acceptable or excusable.

To what extent a lead professional in a situation should work to de-escalate moments of tension that could be dangerous in their work environment appears to be one that most people have differing views from me on. I would say de-escalate first, be right later.

TheKeatingFive · 13/04/2026 21:49

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

Well sure.

But they havent changed sex.

So why are we all being forced to pretend they have?

TheKeatingFive · 13/04/2026 21:52

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 21:48

Having learned more it appears the initial use of "Mr" on the phone call was an understandable error.

At this point the staff were all aware that this sick person was from a sex offender wing of a prison, that he was large, that he was shackled to two prison officers whose responsibility it presumably was to keep the staff and the other patients safe.

By the point of the phone error the trans person was apparently already angry, dysregulated, and upsetting other patients.

I don't think it was Jennifer's fault that he behaved like that either before or after her interaction with him; he is responsible for his own intolerable behaviour.

I do think it, however, wasn't the right or judicious moment to double down on the accidental use of the term "Mr" and justify it, to someone who was never going to deal with that well, even if not ill and not already dysregulated. I think it was predictable that an outburst of some sort would follow. That does not make it right or acceptable or excusable.

To what extent a lead professional in a situation should work to de-escalate moments of tension that could be dangerous in their work environment appears to be one that most people have differing views from me on. I would say de-escalate first, be right later.

Edited

But why does she have to lie to 'descalate tension'?

What is inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun? We all do it, all the time. Until relatively recently it would have been decidedly odd not to do so. What changed? And why do you think we should all go along with that change, despite not ever being asked for our view?

KnottyAuty · 13/04/2026 21:57

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

Well good for you. Im glad you’ve got nice friends and you are happy to call them whatever gender they like. In a small social circle that’s completely fine and nice.

unfortunately you are totally unreasonable to attempt to scale that to a population level where others have different beliefs. It’s not a stable basis for law making or balancing everyone’s rights. you don’t have the right to make everyone else set their rights to zero to accommodate these men

so please stop being a party pooper on a thread thats meant to be in support of Jennifer Melle - do you do this in other spheres of life to people who got through a really hard time? Or just here?

MyAmpleSheep · 13/04/2026 22:00

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about)

This is a curious motte-and-bailey style argument. What are we to deduce about this nurse, these events, and this outcome from your assertion that most trans people are just ordinary people. How is that a relevant consideration?

BusyAzureTraybake · 13/04/2026 22:00

But why does she have to lie to 'descalate tension'?

@TheKeatingFive It's a ridiculous claim. What if she lies and then he decides 'she doesn't really mean it' and he escalates because he 'knows' she is lying. This is very common abusive behaviour. She did exactly the right thing which was to say she would use his name, and then she sorted out his pain meds.

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:01

TheKeatingFive · 13/04/2026 21:52

But why does she have to lie to 'descalate tension'?

What is inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun? We all do it, all the time. Until relatively recently it would have been decidedly odd not to do so. What changed? And why do you think we should all go along with that change, despite not ever being asked for our view?

She didn't have to lie.

She could have simply said something along the lines of "Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed". This would have said nothing about her beliefs or her inability to use the pronouns wanted.

There's nothing inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun. On the other hand, it's to be expected that if you do, it will be likely to rile up someone who has differing beliefs about their personhood and who is already known to be an unpleasant and violent human.

BusyAzureTraybake · 13/04/2026 22:02

"Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed"

That's definitely going to escalate him

KnottyAuty · 13/04/2026 22:02

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:01

She didn't have to lie.

She could have simply said something along the lines of "Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed". This would have said nothing about her beliefs or her inability to use the pronouns wanted.

There's nothing inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun. On the other hand, it's to be expected that if you do, it will be likely to rile up someone who has differing beliefs about their personhood and who is already known to be an unpleasant and violent human.

You are clearly an empathy free zone.
She slips up (during a private conversation with a colleague that she might not have expected to be overheard) and has a giant bloke effing and jeffing and calling her the N word while lunging at her - and you think anyone could say what you suggest. Have you ever had a public facing job? Or any job at all? How ridiculous you sound

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:06

BusyAzureTraybake · 13/04/2026 22:02

"Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed"

That's definitely going to escalate him

So is "yes, I called you Mr, I am a Christian and don't believe people can change sex, so I can't use your preferred title or pronouns."

One "blames" beaurocracy and the other explicitly exposes a personally held differing belief system that is otherwise not relevant in the care of this patient.

Screamingabdabz · 13/04/2026 22:06

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:01

She didn't have to lie.

She could have simply said something along the lines of "Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed". This would have said nothing about her beliefs or her inability to use the pronouns wanted.

There's nothing inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun. On the other hand, it's to be expected that if you do, it will be likely to rile up someone who has differing beliefs about their personhood and who is already known to be an unpleasant and violent human.

Busy NHS nurses shouldn’t have to practice a genderwang script or deny their instincts so that low life criminal scum like this individual don’t attack them, racially abuse them or force them to lose their livelihood.

Everything about this case is a national disgrace.

MyAmpleSheep · 13/04/2026 22:08

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:01

She didn't have to lie.

She could have simply said something along the lines of "Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed". This would have said nothing about her beliefs or her inability to use the pronouns wanted.

There's nothing inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun. On the other hand, it's to be expected that if you do, it will be likely to rile up someone who has differing beliefs about their personhood and who is already known to be an unpleasant and violent human.

She could have worn a longer skirt too. Actions have consequences, isn't that right?

KnottyAuty · 13/04/2026 22:10

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:06

So is "yes, I called you Mr, I am a Christian and don't believe people can change sex, so I can't use your preferred title or pronouns."

One "blames" beaurocracy and the other explicitly exposes a personally held differing belief system that is otherwise not relevant in the care of this patient.

yes she said those things about her belief - as she is quite within her rights to- and the NHS have agreed! It is this man who was dysregulated and abusive. Sorry to break the bad news to you - sex based pronouns in hospitals will be encountered more and more frequently over time now whether you like it or not. You can’t force your secular religion on the rest of us

TheKeatingFive · 13/04/2026 22:10

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:01

She didn't have to lie.

She could have simply said something along the lines of "Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed". This would have said nothing about her beliefs or her inability to use the pronouns wanted.

There's nothing inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun. On the other hand, it's to be expected that if you do, it will be likely to rile up someone who has differing beliefs about their personhood and who is already known to be an unpleasant and violent human.

His 'differing beliefs about his personhood' are not her problem.

Someone correctly identifying your sex should not be a trigger to get 'riled' (much less dole out racist abuse). This man needs to see a therapist to come to terms with his reality. None of this should have been Jennifer's problem to deal with.

BusyAzureTraybake · 13/04/2026 22:14

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:06

So is "yes, I called you Mr, I am a Christian and don't believe people can change sex, so I can't use your preferred title or pronouns."

One "blames" beaurocracy and the other explicitly exposes a personally held differing belief system that is otherwise not relevant in the care of this patient.

Don't use quotation marks unless it's a direct quote.

What she actually said was:
‘I am sorry I cannot refer to you as her or she, as it’s against my faith and Christian values but I can call you by your name.’

She is explaining that she is not refusing to lie to him out of petty animosity. She is offering a solution. She is trying to de-escalate him.

You just don't want to see it because you have so much invested in your pov.

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:15

KnottyAuty · 13/04/2026 22:02

You are clearly an empathy free zone.
She slips up (during a private conversation with a colleague that she might not have expected to be overheard) and has a giant bloke effing and jeffing and calling her the N word while lunging at her - and you think anyone could say what you suggest. Have you ever had a public facing job? Or any job at all? How ridiculous you sound

Edited

No, you got me, I have never held down any job especially not one working on a daily basis with neurodivergent and SEND adults who often need de-escalation strategies and risk management.

That's why what I consider the poor risk management of this volatile situation jumped out at me immediately.

I absolutely understand that a violent, restrained, large, male bodied, dysregulated, criminal is scary to deal with. Which is why I cannot understand why Jennifer doubled down when she did, and I think it wasn't particularly professional at that moment and in that context.

Which as I have repeatedly explained does not make the abuse that happened next in any way acceptable.

PoppinjayPolly · 13/04/2026 22:16

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:01

She didn't have to lie.

She could have simply said something along the lines of "Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed". This would have said nothing about her beliefs or her inability to use the pronouns wanted.

There's nothing inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun. On the other hand, it's to be expected that if you do, it will be likely to rile up someone who has differing beliefs about their personhood and who is already known to be an unpleasant and violent human.

Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed".

what would they have changed to? Can’t be female?

MyAmpleSheep · 13/04/2026 22:19

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:15

No, you got me, I have never held down any job especially not one working on a daily basis with neurodivergent and SEND adults who often need de-escalation strategies and risk management.

That's why what I consider the poor risk management of this volatile situation jumped out at me immediately.

I absolutely understand that a violent, restrained, large, male bodied, dysregulated, criminal is scary to deal with. Which is why I cannot understand why Jennifer doubled down when she did, and I think it wasn't particularly professional at that moment and in that context.

Which as I have repeatedly explained does not make the abuse that happened next in any way acceptable.

Which as I have repeatedly explained does not make the abuse that happened next in any way acceptable.

In other words, you will keep excusing the abuse repeatedly while denying that you are doing so.

She's a nurse, she isn't "working on a daily basis with neurodivergent and SEND adults who often need de-escalation strategies and risk management."

This is really piss-boiling, this "I could have done better" attitude. If you think so, you go and be an A&E nurse. See how you do with the rest of the job.

To save you the trouble of trying yet again - we all understand your point. I think it's rubbish, I think everyone else on this thread thinks it's rubbish, and it doesn't get any less rubbish the more you try to explain it.

SirChenjins · 13/04/2026 22:23

The obvious solution here is for her to identify as white. Problem solved. She says she's white, therefore she is, therefore he has to respect that.

BusyAzureTraybake · 13/04/2026 22:24

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:15

No, you got me, I have never held down any job especially not one working on a daily basis with neurodivergent and SEND adults who often need de-escalation strategies and risk management.

That's why what I consider the poor risk management of this volatile situation jumped out at me immediately.

I absolutely understand that a violent, restrained, large, male bodied, dysregulated, criminal is scary to deal with. Which is why I cannot understand why Jennifer doubled down when she did, and I think it wasn't particularly professional at that moment and in that context.

Which as I have repeatedly explained does not make the abuse that happened next in any way acceptable.

Lots of us have experience with adults and children with ND and/or SEND.
You have been quick to criticise Jennifer but slow to offer any alternative that wouldn't be even more escalatory. You simply have a professional difference of opinion about her technique. You have no grounds whatsoever for calling her professionalism into question.

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:26

BusyAzureTraybake · 13/04/2026 22:24

Lots of us have experience with adults and children with ND and/or SEND.
You have been quick to criticise Jennifer but slow to offer any alternative that wouldn't be even more escalatory. You simply have a professional difference of opinion about her technique. You have no grounds whatsoever for calling her professionalism into question.

Who says?

The actual guards even asked her to back down. I assume they are familiar with this person.

OldCrone · 13/04/2026 22:27

This man seems to be suffering from a delusion that he is a woman. Why should anyone be expected to pretend that his delusion is in any way real?

GailBlancheViola · 13/04/2026 22:28

At this point the staff were all aware that this sick person was from a sex offender wing of a prison, that he was large, that he was shackled to two prison officers whose responsibility it presumably was to keep the staff and the other patients safe.

Prison Officers who are supposedly trained in handling aggressive prisoners such as this man, it was their job to control him and de-escalate any violent situation that is what they are apparently trained to do and paid to do. Instead they allowed him to lunge at Jennifer Melle and follow her out of the room and then to put the tin lid on it they wanted her to kow tow to him and use the pronouns he demanded, pair of simpering, cowardly specimens.

bigboykitty · 13/04/2026 22:29

This has been shared on a FB group local to me and the reactions and comments are all supporting Jennifer

KnottyAuty · 13/04/2026 22:30

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 22:15

No, you got me, I have never held down any job especially not one working on a daily basis with neurodivergent and SEND adults who often need de-escalation strategies and risk management.

That's why what I consider the poor risk management of this volatile situation jumped out at me immediately.

I absolutely understand that a violent, restrained, large, male bodied, dysregulated, criminal is scary to deal with. Which is why I cannot understand why Jennifer doubled down when she did, and I think it wasn't particularly professional at that moment and in that context.

Which as I have repeatedly explained does not make the abuse that happened next in any way acceptable.

If that’s genuinely your job then im astounded at your suggestions for de-escalation. Those lines would bounce right off the autists I know after they’d gone over the edge.

It just sounds like you’re making stuff up now to bolster your position