Jennifer Melle wins settlement from NHS

[RoyalCorgi]

Haven't seen a thread about this anywhere else, but Jennifer Melle, the nurse who refused to refer to a convicted sex offender by his preferred pronouns, and was disciplined, has won a settlement from the NHS trust she works for.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2vlxdnnpqo

Re: telling someone with a bad hair cut its ok to be polite.

In no way does politeness is a problem for the person telling the white lie. It has no affect on them. The person they are lying to has not demanded they lie.

Someone demanding wrong sex pronouns is demanding someone else may be participating in harming either themselves or the person demanding the wrong sex pronouns.

Someone refusing to use wrong sex pronouns may be doing so for self perseverance reasons, to protect the person demanding or because they simply don't believe the lie and don't think they should be compelled to lie and submit to the power play/demand.

It is therefore not an adequate example.

Seems to be - depending on the way the wind is blowing, whether Jupiter is in retrograde, and how loudly the TW is shouting or how many tears he's crying.

Suggestions for a friend with an awful haircut:

You look amazing. (Don't mention the hair. She's your friend, she looks amazing whatever she does to her hair.)
I wish I had the cheekbones for such a short cut.
It must be so exciting to have a change of colour.
You must give me your hairdressers details.
How wonderful, that look is so modern.
Etc, etc...

Yes I agree with that, the forcing others to lie being considered moral.

I believe it's indoctrination. Plus, of course, there is no doubt that some of these people are vulnerable.

To me, that's all the more reason to not continue with the ideology, because it's fake. But for others, it would be seen as protection, I should imagine.

Suggestions for a friend with an awful haircut:

Stunning & brave?😀

Perfect!

You know I'm really glad you didn't get that awful tattoo because that would be permanent...

He was already causing mayhem as he was upsetting other patients on the ward by shouting etc. If he was being abusive there, or what he was shouting hasn’t been reported. Don’t know if the hospital would have reported it if he was, as they seem to be very defensive of this man who was racially abusive towards the nurse. Indeed, as it appears to me that you seem to mitigate his abuse by giving a context where it might even be understandable that he was racially abusive. Now that is some mitigation, if you don’t mind. Can it really be understandable for someone to shout racial abuse at that nurse in some circumstances? The nurse was reading from his chart, which had male on it. Understandably, as he is a man.

I’m just seeing it now. Those signs where ‘racial abuse towards our staff will not be tolerated’ should add an NB. ‘Except in some circumstances, where you are a man who claims to be a woman and a female staff member has the temerity, the cheek even, to not utter the magic, counter factual words you desire. Even if your chart simply says your sex is male, and she is talking to a doctor about your discharge from urology on the phone. Then we’ll bloody try to crush her, and her career.’

I went with 'you look...warm' 😁

Eta for context, frizzy perm.

Been thinking about this, been reading some of the articles about Southport, recall Valdo Calocane and the rape gangs. I'm applying a very broad brush and inevitably I'm going to smudge some lines but I'm sick and tired of the powers that be (and others) making excuses for grown ass adults who are criminals, or on the border of criminality. Certainly acknowledge their ND, poverty, minority status but also acknowledge there is such thing as society. The other people who live in that society have the right to be kept safe too. What I've been getting from reading about all the above is not that the Police, CAMHS, whoever particularly cared about the individual(s) but they wanted to avoid dealing with them. So they minimised, made excuses, passed the buck. Why? I can only speculate. My working theory is bone bloody idleness.

This pervert who attacked Jennifer was a grown adult behaving worse than a toddler. Gagging for a chance to abuse someone, anyone. He's an aforementioned grown adult, responsible for his own behaviour. There's nothing Jennifer could have said that warranted what he said and did to her. It's not uncommon for abusers to say to their weeping victim 'but you know that winds me up'. It's also common for other people to minimise, make excuses, echo the words of the abuser, 'but you know that winds him...sorry...her up'. There's nothing nuanced about it. It's tiresomely familiar.

Regarding poor self-harming Sophie. His authentic self really doesn't seem that happy. I hope his parents didn't trans him as a child.

This is what I agree with. It’s the compelling people to comply with inaccurate language that crosses the line.

The circumstances are irrelevant. This person could be an amazing person, but you still can’t compel someone to use language you prefer.

If you behave respectfully towards someone they are more likely to be accommodating in casual situations. If you compel, punish and bully then you may change the behaviour for a short period time- but the pendulum will swing the other way.

I think it’s crap she had to use her religion to justify her behaviour.

Good news, and I’m happy for Jennifer. But as in all these cases, she’s an innocent woman who has been wrongly vilified by a corrupted establishment.

Maybe the abuse felt more aggressive to her coming as it did, in actuality, from a man. Why shouldn’t she have spoken about what had happened to her?

It was most likely a masculine response on his part to have lashed out in that way. ( Like Road-rage)

A patient’s name and illness is confidential information, but is their behaviour towards a nurse confidential information? Surely not.

That reminds me of the 'It's Maam' video. So, so male.

This sentence - The trans person was racially abusive, but only AFTER being referred to as "Mr" - makes it sound as if the nurse was talking directly to the patient

The nurse was discussing the clinical needs of the patient, to a doctor, on a phone, outside the patient's room when Mr X overheard her referring to him as Mr X

What are the rules here? Two rooms away would be OK but only if one of the doors is closed? One room OK as long as she cupped her hand over the microphone, secret squirrel style?

What if she said Mister but did that quotes thing with her fingers?

lol 😁

Still snorting 😆

@Cailleach1 this is what I don’t understand, apart from everything else to do with GI nonsense, we all see signs regularly saying “abuse of our staff will not be tolerated” or words to that effect. So why wasn’t that “rule” followed regardless?

Look what she made me do

Well said. She was the victim in this, racially abused and threatened with violence by a criminal, and then re-abused by the NHS, which should have protected her rather than putting her through this nightmare. I congratulate her for her win, for her guts and stamina to stand up to them and for refusing to kowtow to a sick mentally ill criminal who gets his kicks from abusing women and girls. She's got more spine than the abusive organisation she works for.

I noticed quite some time ago, that those sort of notices, rather than resulting in there being zero tolerance, just point to there being more abuse than in other places.

And refusing to lie is being blatantly honest!

I have been shocked by the volume of comments online about this blaming the nurse with comments like “pronouns are basic human rights she deserved what she got” apparently pronouns trump racism now. I despair.