Truly single-sex bra fittings for DD13

[Secretsquirrelshh]

Inspired by threads on here re: mixed sex fitting rooms, I need to find somewhere for DD13 (very shy, incredibly embarrassed by EVERYTHING) to have her first ever bra fitting.

M&S is obviously right out, and we don't have a lovely independent shop anywhere near us.

I see John Lewis no longer enforce single-sex changing spaces.

Does anyone have any recommendations of nationwide stores that do truly single-sex bra fittings?

So many typos. The government.

Agreed. What kind of man is now rubbing his hands in glee because he's welcome to spend as long as he likes in a cubicle next to young girl getting her first bra fitted.

I mean, for fuck's sake. It's bleeding, bloody, blocking obvious what kind of man wants to go into a woman's changing room!

Ok. So lets see you take your 13 year old daughter to a bra fitting, knowing full well there's a man in the next cubicle. You have no way of knowing if he's having a nice wank listening to your daughter answer "oh, it's a bit tight" or "I like the pink one best" or "I need one for school and one for gymnastics" or "how do I adjust it?" Or whatever.

Even just the idea there's a small girl half naked will be enough for some men....

But, I'm sure you'd definitely be cool about it all ... And would be telling your daughter to "be tolerant to that man"

All the people coming up with creative solutions and minimising the risk of OP and her daughter having a bad experience are missing the point. It was part of the social contract not that long ago that women would naturally be afforded privacy away from the presence of men - any men loitering near the lingerie changing rooms would be dealt with robustly by the women in charge of them. It was a safe female space. Since we’ve had all the virtue signalling towards trans identifying men from the retailers, along with men like Sophie Molly making a point of showing off about the visits to the bra department, it’s not guaranteed to be a female space any more. Oh and I nearly forgot about the guys who have posted on social media about wanking into women’s underwear and putting it back on the sales floor 🤮

M&S aren't great at bra-fitting anyway, this is quite well-known.
Once you know your size they are fine to buy from, but I wouldn't be going there to get a fitting.

I do think that the DIY instructions now are so accessible that you could easily talk your daughter through it. You could even turn order a number of "sister sizes" and she could try on at home.

As a teenager I would have been just as mortified to have a middle aged woman in a department store measuring my boobs as anyone else. I just cltried sizes on until I found one that fit at that age, which is much easier now with internet shopping. It sounds like your daughter is far more shy and self-conscious than I was, so I can't see any shop being a preferable experience for her.

Mumsnet, the fascinating place where at the same time you will learn that anyone can wear any clothes they want, feminism progress and that, but a trans woman, or even cis man, shopping for lingerie (for themselves or someone else) is someone to be chased off with pitchforks and biggest threat to society which should drive you away from very basic experience of a bra fitting.

OP: as someone who uses the service at M&S, and so does my daughter, you two will enter into a stall (or daughter alone while you wait outside), and exit with shopping in hand after, heading to the till to pay if you decide to buy any.

Anything in between will be handed by the attendant, and there should also be internal curtain in the bigger stalls so when she changes she won't have to do that even in front of you, while you both remain in the stall.

Don't traumatize the kid with transphobia, it's not healthy for you, it won't be any healthier for her.

I see the bat signal has gone out...

Men again, butting in where they are not wanted, whether it’s a lingerie changing room or a Mumsnet thread. Me, me, me, all day, every day.

I’m not sure that someone who has threatened to sexually assault women with splintery rolling pins is the best person to comment on women’s safety.

Children of Transitioners have some interesting stories of fathers involving their daughters in their AGP fetishes:

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/autogynephilia/

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/stop-using-us-as-props/

Curtains, such an effective protector of women and girls from predatory males.

Not.

I expect - indeed, hope - that @dizzydizzydizzy does not have a daughter.

This you, mate?

As I said, and thank you for proving me right, what sort of man is attracted to women's changing rooms?

And attracted to posting all about it on women's forums?

Thank you for your service.

I had an online bra fitting with Katie from Weir Wonderful. It cost £50. She was brilliant, and sends links for bras you can order, then you have another online session with her and she checks the fit of the new bras.

There is no way ever my daughter would let a stranger near her. I'll choose a place that has lockable doors. Or let her try at home

There are shops in Soho and major cities with bras for cross dressers etc. It's nothing new.
It's our allowing of pornography to become mainstream and entitlement that makes men seem to thing we're all interested in their sexual needs. I'm a six foot angry woman so I do not see this nonsense and we live rurally. We have got a trans vicar in one of the villages!

I remember when make up counters did special appointments for trans people and it wasn't a big issue. What happens now is performance and abuse. My DC have trans friends and they're welcome in my house. Anyone that doesn't consider others is just a wrongun.

OP has said it's not necessarily about trans woman but the stores that have created unisex changing rooms that include men.

Yet some people, claiming to dislike transphobia, insist that 'men' must be referring to trans women. If they can't distinguish between the two, it's a bit hypocritical to tell others to.

Mine had hers at m and s. I took her on a quiet evening and it’s cubicles so no one was coming in. I go to bravissimo for mine

I've heard women talk about what it was like growing up in a family where the 'father' was a trans identifying male. Those poor girls. The needs of the children rarely seem to be considered, let along prioritised, in these situations; it seems generally the only thing the man cares about is himself and what he wants.

I hope in the future the harm is recognised and there is understanding and support available to those children affected by their parents' choices and actions.

@Posner

Someone said you were a man?

If so, maybe your objections are because you're a little clueless about the issue. Or maybe you just don't care. Or maybe you are trans yourself.

On the off chance that it's the former, do you now understand why women have an issue?

A man who enjoys talking about raping women with rolling pins, has said that he goes into women's bra fitting changing rooms.

It doesn't take much imagination to realise what sort of men are attracted to women only spaces. But having it so swiftly confirmed, made me wonder if you now see it.

If you're a woman, hopefully you still now see it.

@Secretsquirrelshh your dd would only be an AA or A if she was practically flat chested as AA means the measurement under bust and around the fullest part of the bust is exactly the same. A means only 1 inch difference.

I wouldnt trust M&S for measuring as they had me in 40C and I'm actually 36GG. They add extra inches to the under bust measurement giving the wrong size

And if she is 26 inches under bust youll not find that size on the high street

Well, she's petite and 13, but showing normal signs of puberty. She probably is an AA or an A. No absolutely she doesn't need a bra (do any of us?), but I want to show her what's available and how to go about it, and if she does choose to wear a bra, how to look for one that fits properly and doesn't cause discomfort.

I want her to feel empowered about walking into a shop and asking for help from assistants. And I want her first experience of this to be on the easiest difficulty setting for her - i.e. her Mum with her walking her through the steps, and nobody around that's going to make her feel even more self-conscious.

In this situation, I'm genuinely not concerned from a safeguarding perspective. She will be with me and will be perfectly safe. This is about her dignity.

I think it's because people use the terms interchangeably on this site.

Not all men/males are transwomen, but all transwomen are men/male.

When faced with a man/male person it is impossible to tell if they identify as trans or not. And actually it doesn't matter - because all men/males, however they id, are not women, they are not female, and they need to keep out of women's/female spaces.

I think if someone is a transwoman, it's just easier to refer to them in that way. Clearer. Then we know it's someone male who presents as someone female, maybe had surgery etc. Opposed to someone with some sort of genetic condition or just a man who looks and presents like one would expect a man to look and present.