Truly single-sex bra fittings for DD13

[Secretsquirrelshh]

Inspired by threads on here re: mixed sex fitting rooms, I need to find somewhere for DD13 (very shy, incredibly embarrassed by EVERYTHING) to have her first ever bra fitting.

M&S is obviously right out, and we don't have a lovely independent shop anywhere near us.

I see John Lewis no longer enforce single-sex changing spaces.

Does anyone have any recommendations of nationwide stores that do truly single-sex bra fittings?

This.

In the sexual theme park of womanhood, this is one of the most fetishized rides.

Tbere are much more likely and bigger risks in life for a 13yo eg being run over because they are wearing headphones and couldn’t hear the traffic, self harm and eating disorders, sporting injuries especially on garden trampolines.

That’s not to say it is impossible that the OP’s DD will have a man wanking in the next cubicle and will realise that it is happening, but I think since she will be with her mother the chances of this bra fitting turning into a traumatic event are extremely slim.

And what about swimming pool changing rooms? They are usually mixed too. And unlike bra fitting rooms, there definitely will be men. Are these now no-go ares for girls just in case a man decides to have a wank in the next cubicle? I used to be a lifeguard, in the school holidays, we used to der children swimming all day without their parents- they are allowed if they are 8 or older.

Personally, I think the most obvious solution is to refer to them as what they are, and what they appear to everyone's eyes to be - which is a man presenting himself in female attire, or 'as a woman'. I reject the 'trans' concept and see no need to grace it with my aquiescence

I have 3 adult DDs and they have never been fitted for a bra.
Just measure her, and go and buy her a few to try and take back those that are not a good fit.
You are making too much of this .... don't use your DD to make a point. Just do what's best for her. That's what matters.

TBH, I'd probably just buy one or two on a 'guestimate' and try them out at home. That's what my Mum did with my first bra. I now have an 11 year old granddaughter, and I can imagine she'd be mortified should I take her for a formal bra fitting - even in a couple of years time.

For a proper fitting M&S are pretty useless anyway, regardless of any issues with fitting rooms, etc. They use the 'plus 4' method and basically will fit you into what they have rather than your actual correct size. E.g. someone measured as 32A in M&S is likely better suited to around 28E.

Bravissimo are generally very good and I doubt there's much chance of any men in the fitting room although I don't know their policy.

Alternatively, I'd highly recommend taking a look at 'A Bra That Fits'. They have a website with a size calculator which is very good, and they also have groups on Reddit and Facebook where you can get advice/support.

I don't think that's true and it makes the conversation confusing. If the person listening thinks of transwomen as men, they can apply that part themselves.

Say I told you that a transwoman is next door to me in a female changing room, you're not going to think of it as much different than me telling you that a man is in there. You're going to see it as a violation.

If you tell someone who thinks TWAW that a TW is in the cubicle next door, they aren't going to think of it any differently then they do. They'll think they are in the right place.

The only benefit to saying it is a man is to make everyone agree that a man should not be in there. But you'd usually have to clarify at some point and then some people will switch to saying it's fine because they think TWAW.

From the article

“As children of transitioners, we assume a symbolic value, both politically and personally. For the individual parent, we are used as proof of how well they are doing. It’s important to show that we are thriving. Pictures tend to be of us beaming away next to our cross-dressing Dad. Just as I was used as a ‘beard’ for my father and his friends – who would look twice at a ‘woman’ walking with a child? – so also do transitioning fathers use their children to add a sheen or respectability.”

This is definitely the case for the two fathers I know, including Paul who is on this thread. He also has the gall to call himself “mum”. It’s vile and I doubt their children, especially daughters, will ever forgive them.

I'm talking about speaking the truth of what I perceive - which also happens to be the truth.

Males should not be in female single sex facilities anyway.

Genderists don't necessarily believe that a transwoman wants to be female, but that they are literally a woman, which is (in their belief) a male or female person with a gender identity. So "presenting as female" would exclude some transwomen who believe that being a woman is determined by inner gender identity and not bodily appearance.

None of this is really relevant to OP's situation though, as she's clear it's female-only spaces she wants, regardless of how any male users look.

To be honest, my daughter didn’t need anyone to measure her as she just wanted sports bras at the start - and is still in them now a couple years later. Shes fussy about fabrics so I ordered loads in an xs and she tried them on at home. If your daughter is just starting out she won’t be likely to be in a proper bra anyway - all of my daughter’s friends are in sporty ones still.

My mother was 10x more embarrassing than any man would have been in this situation - had the saleswoman come in and look at me and I wanted to crawl under the carpet. After that my dad was the one to take me most times - he’d hover around awkwardly and then pay for whatever I handed him.

Do you care about that? If I saw someone who was a man but presenting as a woman and I wanted to talk about it with clarity, I'd just say "transwoman" irrespective of how they specifically identify. It would communicate what I meant to whoever i was telling effectively.

A teenage girl with no breasts doesn’t need a bra fitting 🙄 just get a bralette. I’m a 32E and wear bralettes. Your daughter does not need the embarrassment of someone measuring her none existent breasts.

I'd ring them up and check with the shop. Just explain you want to know that there won't be any men around as you've heard that the changing rooms are mixed sex and that wouldn't be comfortable for your daughter. I don't think there are any male bra fitters. Even the loons at M&S and John Lewis would know that's unacceptable.

Well, you can do that can't you, even though it still doesn't change the reality.

I'm not sure why you are so concerned with how other people choose to describe what they perceive, anyway?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5515956-truly-single-sex-bra-fittings-for-dd13?reply=151661301&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

There is no way to know if a man thinks he is a transwoman other than that he tells you. Which is not necessarily going to be happening in the M&S lingerie department.

And even he is says so, how do we know that is the case? He could be experiencing Sudden Onset Prison Dysphoria (Isla Bryson, et al) or possible Sudden Wanting To Follow Young Girls Into Changing Rooms Trans Identity.

Men, no matter who they think they are or how they present, are male, and have no right to women's single sex spaces. It's quite simple...and just easier to refer to them in that way. Clearer.

So keen to minimise the likelihood of this happening. Another who needs to read the Target study. You might also want to peruse M & S underwear reviews. Or maybe not.

Single sex changing rooms at swimming pools should always be available.

As for your comment about a higher chance of being run over, do you not realise there's an absolute epidemic of sexual assaults on girls?

Garden trampolines😄
🐿

Mixed sex changing villages are notorious for sexual harassment and voyeurism as the statistics show.

A society that valued women would do what it could to minimise the risks - thus single sex facilities where women and girls have their clothes off!!

I just don’t want to be in a fitting room with men. Not that I have to give a reason but I was assaulted by a man who was meant to be a professional in a health/beauty capacity
i no longer feel able to see a male GP, dentist, health professional etc let alone have a man in a changing room next to me
1 in 30 women across England and wales are raped or sexually assaulted every year. That should be enough reason for women only spaces

I recently had this exact dilemma. We ended up at Bravissimo out of a lack of anywhere else to try and had an excellent experience. There were no men in the changing rooms - they all waited outside in a designated seating area away from the changing rooms. We were taken to the very back of the changing rooms to give us the most privacy and the lady was brilliant, so discreet and knew how to approach a shy 13 year old. My daughter isn’t big but we found a large selection of bras to fit her and also room to grow into. Highly recommended (there’s also an under 18 discount of 10%) and my daughter enjoyed the experience and we would definitely go back there.

I'm not bothered what a man thinks he is, women aren't born to revolve their lives around what a man says it happening between his ears. I want entirely men-free single sex spaces.

The women who are unbothered by this risk, lucky them, or who are keen to support men therapeutically by undressing with them, can use gender neutral third spaces. I wish them a lovely time.

This feels like a massive gap in the market (which is astonishing) - a guaranteed female-only space for girls and women to try on bras.

I know online might be easiest - but actually I'm not trained to see how well a bra fits - and in some ways I think DD would be less embarrassed by a trained professional helping her than her mum, as it's a bit less personal.

Of course we could order online, but as I've said before, I'm also trying to instill skills in DD that even when something is a bit embarrassing or awkward, you can still do it. (Important later for healthcare professionals, intimate conversations with future partners etc.) If she never gets a chance to practice these skills - in a thoroughly safe environment - then she misses the chance to improve resilience.

I didn't think the "safe environment" bit would be the hard part. And yes, as I've said a couple of times, I don't mean literally safe, but emotionally safe.