Is there ANY concern among Trans Rights Activists for the health wellbeing of adolescents receiving gender affirming drugs that the findings of the Finnish study might be true

[mardirousse]

You would expect Trans Rights Activists to be concerned about the physical mental health of gender questioning children, yet I haven't seen a single TRA express the slightest concern that gender affirming care might be causing harm to young kids, who they see as transgender. Not here, not on r/transgenderuk, not on x.
They are attacking the credibility of the study, but given its size and the very shocking findings, why aren't at least some of them expressing a little concern that there might be something in it? I mean, these are vulnerable kids, and they're taking really powerful drugs with major long-term consequences, and now it looks like there's evidence that it may be doing the opposite of what it's supposed to...
How could you not be concerned, whatever your agenda? They're kids!
Aren't trans rights activists interested in the right of trans kids to be safe and healthy?
Am I missing something?

The kids were never intended to be anything other than human shields for a very cynical ideology.

I saw something basically arguing that it just showed how harmful the cautious Finnish approach and system was. So they accepted that harm was being done but the solution was to be more affirming and offer freer access to medical intervention.

You are not missing anything OP.

It is imperative that gender identity issues are affirmed in children because if they are not and the children are found to be heavily influenced by media, peers etc and there is so many of them being proved to be harmed, then what does this mean for the young adults and adult transitions?

If gender dysphoria is found to be exceedingly rare and influenced by trauma and other factors rather than being this 'innate' sense everyone claims, it shakes the very foundations of this as a supportable philosophical theory and belief. And it also makes all those people who declared that they have 'known' since they were children look much less credible.

Yes. The childhood narrative is vital to support the adult narrative.

There are a handful of older HSTS on X and elsewhere that have always felt medical interventions should be left to adulthood, if not mid-20s. I haven't seen them comment on this particular study because I don't 'follow' them, but I would imagine they are disturbed by the findings. They appear to be a minority though.

These are people who have made their entire lives and identities about transition.
When faced with evidence that it is damaging, their only options are blindly deny it or realise with dawning horror what they have done to very vulnerable children.
Much easier to just keep their heads buried in the sand.

I believe medical interventions can be important at any age, but access to those interventions should be more controlled than they have recently. I was personally able to access interventions much earlier in life than most until the last 20 years or so. But I had done a freakish amount of research as a child, knew what I needed to do medically from an early age, and I struggled through a lot of barriers to access it.

Because of my personal experience, I believe a child or adolescent shouldn't be coached into transition. I still don't understand how transition became a social contagion.

The vast majority of trans women my age believe they were personally prevented from accessing transition until middle-age due to a lack of knowledge and access to services. I was not the only teen transitioning in the 80s, so treatment was not impossible. I am uncomfortable with the amount of fetishisation of trans youth lives by older trans women in particular. The day I learned about "trans fiction" was not a happy one.

I don't know a lot about the study, but the clinic seems a little off to me based on what I've read from client experiences. The study itself contained a bunch of weirdly unanswered questions and strangely provided answers.

From personal experience, trans life is hard. I was enrolled in a child psychiatric clinic with inpatient/outpatient testing/studies from age 6 until I was able to 'opt out' at age 11. A majority of the trans people from my early transition period did not survive to their mid 20s, because of AIDS and other causes. I've known too many people who have ended their lives. Not due to medical reasons, but the constant hate and abuse from relatives and those around them for being visually trans.

I don't regret doing anything in my life, but I was eventually blessed with unconditional support from my family, disconcertingly average build and conventional attractiveness.

"A majority of the trans people from my early transition period did not survive to their mid 20s, because of AIDS and other causes. I've known too many people who have ended their lives. Not due to medical reasons, but the constant hate and abuse from relatives and those around them for being visually trans."

All the major suicide prevention charities have made it clear that it's incredibly reckless and dangerous to ascribe suicide to one particular cause. And they have also made it clear that suicide of gender-confused young people is, in Polly Charmichael's words, "vanishingly rare".

You are not doing much for your credibility by making up such tall tales @onepostwonder

@onepostwonder I don't know a lot about the study, but the clinic seems a little off to me based on what I've read from client experiences. The study itself contained a bunch of weirdly unanswered questions and strangely provided answers.

You're going to have to do better than that to discredit it, matey

One could argue that a child doing a "freakish amount of research" is perhaps one that will be one with the potential to have significant confirmation bias before and after receiving treatment.

Perhaps they had additional reasons, but the only people I have known to die through their own action were trans and they had long experiences of having trans-related social difficulty.

Not all were youths, the majority were over the age of 25.

Agree.

I have no feelings one way or the other. I don't think it will have the influence a lot of people are ascribing to it, though.

Trans identifing children are only there to validate the adults. If they don't support the case for late transitioning adults then they are worse than useless.

They need to be suppressed and silenced.

Why do you think detransitioners are vilified as traitors?

I'm not even convinced you have read it. Are you confusing it with their previous research on mortalities, including suicide?

Trans identifying children will identify as trans regardless of anyone else. I agree that there are late transitioning adults who latch on to youths in unhealthy ways. I used to see no common ground between my experience and their experience. I've since decided that there are some who for whatever reason were unable to transition as a younger person, but not all. As I've aged I've also taken on the belief that a lot of this is none of my f'n business. I care a lot less about the whos and whys of 'trans.'

People detransition for many reasons. I've known a few and support anyone who decides they cannot live a trans life for whatever reason.

But it seems that those who are seen as 'traitors' by trans people are a vocally anti-trans minority who share a politically-focused public role.

I'm glad you have focussed on expressing your concern for children harmed in the name of supporting your transition.

Thanks.

I'm sorry, what?

Agree.

Sadly the only empathy or consideration ever shown is exclusive to those who are (in that moment) useful to the gender ideology engine. They are discarded the second they cease to be so, without the faintest grain of conscience. This is not a well or ethical movement.

Sadly I think that TRA's will ignore any feelings of concern they may have over children being harmed because they've gone too far to turn back. However I'm sure there are some Trans people and other allies that are concerned about it, they probably fear speaking out though, as they will be tarred as traitors.
I've personally wondered how some TRA's and their allies don't see anything worrying about claiming that after a while of taking hormones trans women lose much of their physical strength (they say when trying to justify why they should be able to compete in women's sport). I can't think of any other treatment where losing a large amount of body strength would be considered a plus.

I asked Jolyon Maugham why he supported unevidenced medical practices on trans identified kids since he supports the trans community. He blocked me.

Sadly I think that TRA's will ignore any feelings of concern they may have over children being harmed because they've gone too far to turn back.

That's a pretty cynical belief. There is some percent (any percent is too big, imo) of children who are not trans, but for whatever reason find themselves receiving trans-focused medical care and some amount of social/family support (or as some here would say, encouragement). I agree that these children are being or have been harmed. No child should be harmed.

I do not believe trans-focused medical care and social/family support is inherently harmful to all children. Trans children do exist and they deserve access to treatment and support. It is harmful to them to exclude them from treatment.

I don't know how to 'identify' who requires it and who does not, other than basing my feelings on my own experience. I can easily say it should be banned for all people under 18/21, like it was in the 80s when I transitioned, and those who need it will find it as I did. Medical care shouldn't be available to 'only the fittest' though. The major difference now vs then is access to HRT and information is far more widely available. Many people will DIY now and into the future.

I've personally wondered how some TRA's and their allies don't see anything worrying about claiming that after a while of taking hormones trans women lose much of their physical strength

Like many other 'side effects' of removing testosterone, it is seen as a validation of moving toward female norms. However, in the case of muscles and bone mass adult trans women will have larger bone mass to navigate around, requiring more muscle. So, the argument goes it is harder to move a truck with a car engine (or something). Though, not all trans women will lose muscle. I personally was able to gain muscle. Bone mass is also a concern.

That's a pretty cynical belief.

Find me examples that demonstrate the opposite. They are few and far between...

Nope. It must be Fake News, a conspiracy by haters and Terfs, no doubt funded by right wing American Christians. Or by JK Rowling.