Is there ANY concern among Trans Rights Activists for the health wellbeing of adolescents receiving gender affirming drugs that the findings of the Finnish study might be true

[mardirousse]

You would expect Trans Rights Activists to be concerned about the physical mental health of gender questioning children, yet I haven't seen a single TRA express the slightest concern that gender affirming care might be causing harm to young kids, who they see as transgender. Not here, not on r/transgenderuk, not on x.
They are attacking the credibility of the study, but given its size and the very shocking findings, why aren't at least some of them expressing a little concern that there might be something in it? I mean, these are vulnerable kids, and they're taking really powerful drugs with major long-term consequences, and now it looks like there's evidence that it may be doing the opposite of what it's supposed to...
How could you not be concerned, whatever your agenda? They're kids!
Aren't trans rights activists interested in the right of trans kids to be safe and healthy?
Am I missing something?

Not sure that explains why though

I think it is skirting around the subject of trans-identified male prostitution.

Sadly i think the waters were muddied so long ago and the reasons behind why adult males transvestites and transexuals exist is difficult to establish because of an essay worth of reasons.

I think it doesn’t even need to be an essay for trans activist clinicians to acknowledge the need to be cautious. They just need to acknowledge:

• that AGP exists, because there are people who admit they have it, ergo you shouldn’t medically transition males as children if a developing paraphilia is driving it.

And similarly:

• that “insistent, consistent, persistent” exists as a feature of those who eventually desisted or detransitioned, so isn’t a reliable reason to transition children.

• that there are children, particularly girls, who admit they were swept up in the social contagion element

• that if the above things are true, there is no reliable indication to medically any transition children, because there’s a decent chance they’ll get it wrong.

But they don’t, because they are all so arrogant.

“Oh, of course WE wouldn’t get it wrong, WE know, WE know this child is definitely trans forever, of course it’s not anything other than a true gender identity issue, because we are oh so clever.”

And it’s long past the point where they could be forgiven for not knowing, and not expressing doubt or caution, because that’s what Finland has done. So if they can see sense and adjust, the fact others refuse to is nothing short of negligence.

Because a cohort of trans identifying males are actually homosexuals, that are more commonly more acceptable as “women” in many cultures internationally.

in addition these cohort of homosexuals dressed as women are involved in prostitution, with males often who live hetrosexual lives.

Funny how prostitution is to be celebrated as empowering when women do it, but has a veil drawn over it when it's trans-identified males.

(I don't take anything from this website personally. I can spot a shibboleth or five from a mile away.)

I'm not attempting to be more offensive or less offensive than anyone else. I will agree that I have been annoying. I've shared my experiences to inject some 'impossibility' into the day-to-day hum of everyone attacking evil trans stereotypes who are either monstrously large and scary looking or criminal deviants locked-up and scheming to invade women's prisons. No, not all trans people are like me. The vast majority aren't. But there are others who are and we as women don't owe anyone our lives as collateral damage.

I don't see rights as a pie. There's no slice of finite rights that everyone is fighting to possess. Are women affected by trans acceptance? I've been uncomfortable with some trans people in some environments but that's on me. I have incompatible beliefs to yours. I 100% agree that not all women believe trans women can be drop shipped into women's space. I don't believe some trans women should ever be in any women's space.

I've been taking HRT for longer than most trans people have been alive. You'll have to take my word that I am a very healthy person for my age and quite functional in society. Of course, this doesn't automatically mean that everyone else is. HRT does some pretty deep stuff to the brain and body. Some changes are temporary and others are permanent. No one can know how they will be affected by it until it has already been taken. Transition is the same. Unless you start from a place of overwhelming certainty, there are no guarantees of acceptance or tolerance from anyone.

I've mentioned previously that I have very nuanced thoughts on GC/SR beliefs. I've also previously taken the stance that absolutism should be countered with absolutism.

I don't understand anything about Debbie Hayton. There is nothing there that I can feel any connection to. There are some trans women who decide to become professional trans people. Usually they're on the trans women are women side of the argument, though.

I mean, here’s your answer.

“Do TRAs ever worry or acknowledge transitioning children might not help?”

”Let me talk all about meeeeeeee.”

I agree with you.

Not only that, but what research would have been accurate at that time.

It is part of the inconsistency.

You are a different cohort to Debbie Hayton he is married and has a wife and children that he fathered so your perspectives are likely different.

i would like you to state quite clearly what your position is on child transition and medical interventions for the under 25’s (when the brain has fully matured)

'We as women' , eh. I have an issue with that being spoken by someone who isn't. I was thinking some of the posts were semi reasonable but that bit lost me.

Buckle up. It won't get better. If you're lucky he will just write 'This is your belief' after everything you post.

Yes, completely loses me too.

It is such an offensive appropriation of the experience of growing up female. If you are not female, you cannot understand what being female means or feels like.

It’s all a projection of the idea of being female.

Disagree with what?

Ah, I thought i was getting better at recognising the regular drive by merchants, but evidently not.

@murasaki I agree with that but sadly one poster seems to truly believe he is a woman. I can disagree vehemently with someone and still want to know about their thinking.

on this paticular thread i think that is fine. Not elsewhere where there are uninvited assertions.

But this thread invites the “drive by”

Fair enough, that makes sense. It grates, mind you, as it's an impossible view for them to have. But sure, let's hear it in the appropriate places when asked. And not when not.

Deliberately designed to confuse the uninitiated. We see them.

🤷‍♀️ okay?

I was in a clinic full of psychiatrists happy to have long conversations and answer questions. I also was a frequent visitor to libraries. I made numerous visits to the city's reference library branch to specifically locate referenced papers in books that my community library did not keep on film or in the papers section. I read The Transsexual Empire and The Transsexual Phenomenon in the same summer. TBH, they were better than Conundrum. I came away from that like I'd wasted a bunch of time.

Rights to access female single sex provisions are pie. A male accessing those provisions reduces access for female pie.

That ‘rights are not pie’ mantra has always been flawed when it comes to female single sex provisions.

You are male. It doesn’t matter that you believe you pass, that you believe your skeletal proportions became female, that you think no one understands that you are male. There are several issues with you demanding access to female single sex provisions.

The main two are that there will be female people who will correctly identify your sex and your being in a female single sex provision by stealth is not respectful at all of female people’s needs.

He knows, just as they all do, that he’s a man. That he might wish he was a woman is neither here nor there. The sole requisite for being a trans woman is, in fact, to be a man. So my sympathy for any of them who claim to respect women yet simultaneously invade our spaces and erode the very language we use to describe ourselves has long since diminished.

He knows full well he is not a woman.

That and HRT

I think we have gotten distracted from the OP post which asks what TRA’s/ trans people think about the Finish study and transing children.

We have yet to receive a proper clear response from the one person that has shown up.

your being in a female single sex provision by stealth is not respectful at all of female people’s needs.

Deceiving people to take what you are not entitled to doesn’t suddenly become ok because people do not know they are being deceived.