Late night surprise about reputation of FWR

[IwantToRetire]

I was on Site Stuff to report back on ongoing freezing and noticed another thread about whether Mumsnet should apologise about deleting threads about ongoing conflict in the Middle East.

And there were some comments about there being a border line between legitimate criticism of Israel's policies and anti semitism. And it is this last that get these threads deleted.

So was surprised to see some comment on this thread saying it was as bad as some threads on FWR, and those particularly at fault are thos with a GC view point.

(Funnily enough AI suggested a title for this thread along the lines of "Are FWR debates judged differently ..... " but now it has hidden its suggestion, just when I was going to use it.)

Oh its come back

"Are sex and gender debates on FWR judged by different standards?"

Pro tip, when you take the piss out of other people’s SPAG, probably best to check the next few words are spelled correctly 🤷‍♀️

Generally, they’re a thread where someone is being attacked by a group of posters.
Or, as FWR might see it, someone is making outrageous comments and cannot support them with any sort of coherent argument.

Don’t be too bothered, MyLuckyHelper. They do this all the time.

You are entitled to post your opinion, but you have to cope with people challenging your assertions.

You claim that there is aggression on both sides then dismiss TRA threats as a meme?

Is it possible that you find women maintaining boundaries aggressive and see male threats of violence as not that serious?

So do you and others like you. These threads are entirely predictable. Your perspective is every bit as subjective as anyone else’s.

Of course other opinions are allowed.

But yes, cognitive dissonance most definitely kicks in when posters find themselves on these threads having to explain why the women standing up for women's legal rights to single sex spaces are actually the big baddies.

Cognitive dissonance is a big problem with this issue, on Mumsnet and elsewhere. That’s my opinion, and anyone can take it or leave it, I don’t care either way.

It's not just one example though, is it?

There are multiple examples in the Terfisaslur link of men wishing violence, rape and death on the womem who have the audacity to say no to them.

As for your 'live and let live' most of us would agree. The problem is men who access women's single sex spaces are not 'live and let live' they are negatively impacting women's rights to their own spaces.

So you're not really 'live and let live' in supporting this, you're more 'just give men what they want and STFU about it ladies'

This afternoon - an example of the "both sides" fantasy at the 1 year on demo.

https://x.com/DrPamSpurr/status/2042929504960630901

As I have said, the belittling comments from this type of poster bely the “reasonable discourse” they claim they want. Every. Single. Time.

It's been absorbed that we are the 'bad guys' and other women have felt righteous because they aren't us and they don't really want to let that feeling go. But it's hard when they have to acknowledge the behaviour of the extremist TRAs towards women.

Hence what we see on this thread.

It’s not a meme, it is a publicity flyer for Bash Back who advocate violence in preventing women meeting without transwomen present, and against anything else they don’t approve of.

They suggest loading up with weapons, stealing said weapons to prevent the police tracing purchases, and cleaning up afterwards.

Just so you are aware of what some trans identified people are prepared to do if they can’t win the arguments by reasonable means.

I some countries, having your view that people can't change sex is illegal.

In Australia, lesbians are not allowed to have groups that don't include trans identified men.

Self ID means that women in many States in the USA and many countries in Europe have now no way to complain if a man, any man, is in their changing room as long as he says he's a woman. He can stand there stark bollock naked and if a woman complains, she will be seen as in the wrong.

The issue is not about individuals. It's about entire societies eroding women's rights. And children being irreversibly harmed in the process.

YY.

or you it might be a far deeper issue, for me it isn’t. And despite what people on here would have you believe, im allowed to hold an opinion that differs to theirs without being insulted or invalidated.

It's almost an Onion headline, isn't it?

Woman on Mumsnet fights very hard for her right to think an issue isn't very deep. "It's most important that other people recognize this is something really quite trivial, and I will engage fiercely with anyone who tries to tell me I should care about it."

I’m not fighting very hard for anything.

Im exercising my right to express an opinion on a public forum.

while you all demonstrate that my opinion was indeed correct and people are aggressive on both sides and unable to tolerate differing views from their own.

I’m not fighting very hard for anything.

Uh-huh.

Luckily I don’t live in one of those countries, I live in one where we have freedom of speech. Which is wonderful.

i also haven’t expressed an opinion on self ID. But it’s great you keep thinking of things to hammer me with that I’ve yet to voice 😂

in fact, this is such a bizarre argument. In some countries it’s illegal to be gay, does that mean if I can’t hold the view that being gay is fine becuase it’s illegal elsewhere? What point are you even trying to make here?

What many posters actually do is rock up on threads to insult and belittle women on FWR, and then claim that “no other opinions are allowed” or similar nonsense when people defend their beliefs or opinions. DARVO. And most people here are wise to it.

You have that freedom not in small part because women who met on Mumsnet went to court and fought for it.

Quite the opposite here, I have a response to a direct statement that I disagreed with that has nothing to do with trans rights themselves and have faced a barrage of insults and accusations as a result.

It's a group supported by jolyon maugham kc and the good law project.

Show me a single insult please? Or an accusation?

I don't think these words mean what you think they mean.

Yes @MyLuckyHelper isnt it good that we are all free to believe what we like? You can believe your version and others can interpret the exchanges based on how they feel is a more accurate reflection.

To those posters who don't care about what trans identified men do.

Do you really not care that

Nurses have faced the sack if they don't want to change in front of men

A female patient was raped in hospital by a man on her ward and the hospital lied to the police for a year and said it couldn't have happened because there was no man on the ward

A man who sexually assaulted a girl in the female toilets was then sent to a female only refuge

There are no female only rape therapy groups in Brighton (and other places)

A paralysed woman who depends on carers cannot be guaranteed that a man will not be sent to wash her vulva

Etc etc