feminism or transphobia?

[giraffezoo]

Long time lurker of this forum, first time poster.

I have read through many of the threads on here and I have to say there are lots of views that I find quite shocking.

There almost seems to be two sides of the ‘gender critical’ movement on here that I can see.

The first seems quite reasonable. They wish to have protections in place for women and their rights. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree (e.g. trans folk in toilets, transgender prisoners etc) they are stating a view based on safety and women’s rights.

The second bunch are the ones who I find myself disagreeing with, and who post things that I personally consider as transphobic. Some examples of this would be: refusing to use someone’s pronouns or citing being transgender as a mental illness which needs to be cured.

I feel that the first group are genuinely feminists who are concerned with women’s rights, and feel as though they need to speak out on their own concerns. The second group are masquerading under the pretence of feminism to say hateful or controversial things.

I am interested to hear other views on this point (and I’m sure there will be a lot here who don’t agree with me!)

I dont even actually have the energy to find the zombie rollercoaster meme.

Im not calm and polite. But in my experiences, anger has got me nowhere. Staying quiet and strategic and chanelling that anger into change has got me results, much better results than righteous anger ever did.
so I learned the hard way, I became strategic and pragmatic and when I’m angry I step back rather than engage, like I said it’s protective

Yes I’ve been very shocked by some of the hatred I’ve seen on these boards too. It’s actively prevented me from posting till now to be honest - it’s just been so grim to witness.

The second category you identify seems to have whipped themselves up into a lather of outrage that completely ignores the perspectives or even basic humanity of trans or gender questioning people. I can’t understand or get behind that at all. I guess it’s just such a massive existentialist threat that rejection feels safer than allowing the conversation?

I recognise that feminist and trans ideas about gender expression can genuinely be at odds, and also that both groups have natural points of conflict that are extremely difficult to resolve. But none of that excuses vile language and purposeful disrespect.

As a charity sector worker I also have an issue with the recent spate of GC led charity sector persecutions / legal threats, but will possibly leave that for another time!

I read your first sentence and I also read your second sentence

Im just saying how does what they’re saying justify nasty comments back?

What nasty comments back?

@mattala
An eye for an eye? Presumably you're not suggesting that misgendering and rape threats are equivalent?

I just don’t get why people feel the need to say I can say they’re a man because they were mean to me. You can say they’re a man because you’ve got protected political beliefs. You don’t need to score points.

I guess you’re equally shocked by men threatening GC women with murder and rape, aren’t you?

I can say they are men because they are men.

I say men are men because they are.

It could be a very nice man who hasn't been mean but I would still call him a man

What?

Thank you, exactly

Im not going to @ you all separately.
i just think there’s no need to be mean about anyone. And saying someone has been mean to you in the past doesn’t justify you being mean back. I learned this in primary school I thought this was normal?

What is mean about calling a man a man?

Saying women should be fucked with a splintery rolling pin is a little more than “mean”, isn’t it?

Who is being mean? You mean women are being 'mean' about a man who has threatened rape?

Nothing, I said comparing gi to lemons when it’s a serious thing that causes other people harm was mean

Cross post

There's a zombie rollercoaster meme?

Just for you, ourobouros!

It is not respectful to expect people to use female language for male people.

It is also not respectful to demand that people use inaccursgr language because someone demands their subjective reality is material reality when it is not.

I think it’s more a sense of shock at feeling personally rejected from a space I feel ‘should’ be mine, since I am both female and a feminist. But not the right kind it seems.

If I take testosterone, it won't make me a man. If it did, I suspect many women would do so for an easier life.

If I drink litres of lemon juice, I don't become a lemon.

There's a limit to how much humans can alter their own bodies, just as there is a limit to how much we can control our environments. We are not omnipotent gods.

also how can a man know what it is to feel like a woman? I can’t possibly comprehend what it is to be a man or a dog or a chicken or a lemon. And adding vitamin c to my body doesn’t make me a lemon either.

I don't think this is mean but even if you think so, it's hardly equivalent to threatening rape with a splintery rolling pin or saying terfs should die in a grease fire

There is the other board. Link at the top.

I mean it’s not hate speech or anything like that. Mean is a very mild adjective but seriously lemons???? 😂😂😂😂😂