feminism or transphobia?

[giraffezoo]

Long time lurker of this forum, first time poster.

I have read through many of the threads on here and I have to say there are lots of views that I find quite shocking.

There almost seems to be two sides of the ‘gender critical’ movement on here that I can see.

The first seems quite reasonable. They wish to have protections in place for women and their rights. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree (e.g. trans folk in toilets, transgender prisoners etc) they are stating a view based on safety and women’s rights.

The second bunch are the ones who I find myself disagreeing with, and who post things that I personally consider as transphobic. Some examples of this would be: refusing to use someone’s pronouns or citing being transgender as a mental illness which needs to be cured.

I feel that the first group are genuinely feminists who are concerned with women’s rights, and feel as though they need to speak out on their own concerns. The second group are masquerading under the pretence of feminism to say hateful or controversial things.

I am interested to hear other views on this point (and I’m sure there will be a lot here who don’t agree with me!)

Proper pronouns are sex-based ones. I don't know how old you are, but I am probably older. For the vast majority of my life there has been no doubt about the meanings of "he" and "she",and they always referred to someone's sex. Mistakes were rare.

All of a sudden, we are expected to remember, for each person, what they prefer, and ignore what our senses are telling us. From being a tool to express ourselves, language suddenly becomes something we have to police in ourselves. Ordinary discourse becomes a conscious effort and less capacity is available for making ourselves understood, as we have to be constantly on the alert for a dreadful faux pas; indeed, our speech has become the pretext for people to bully us into obedient compliance with their worldview.

My conscious is clear. Thanks.

The person demanding from others because of their own self importance isn't me. You literally just made a point that 'believe me I understand these concepts better than you' and I'm supposed to not roll around laughing my head off at the irony.

Please carry on with the toddler tantrum.

The answer is still no.

Whining that it's not fair and you won't be one of the cool mums if you don't agree with me isnt exactly new ground for many of us.

The difference is, the words “male” and “female” are not insults. They describe reality.

There is no point debating with you if you think the female sex is just as prevalent a sexual predator as the male.

If you can’t see a rape victim having to call her male rapist a ‘she’ in court is a power play and a form of control isn’t being kind, it’s oppressing a victim further. This has actually happened but I’m sure you don’t care.

No matter what statistics (even gov ones)are given to you, no matter the women hurt by these men you’re so blindly following the march of the male fetishist like a cult following that no one should bother with you.

I hope one day you do not seek the refuge of a women’s space and find yourself in need. Women like you are an absolute disgrace to our sex and the young girls of today that are having their rights ripped away. Disgusting.

Everyone else's ego is massive.
Why aren't you all listening to me who is the only one who gets it and is right.

😂

Well that's an entertaining post.

Exactly. If I see a horse, I will refer to the creature in front of me as a horse.

If I see a man I will refer to that person as a man. Likewise with women.

Pronouns are sex based, not a personal choice or changeable according to someone’s outfit or hairstyle.

The end.

I’m thoroughly enjoying the thread this morning

You haven’t actually engaged with my opinions. You’ve just assigned ones onto me I never had in the first place and forced me to defend them.

The meltdown because we say no false sex pronouns because they are harmful is always epic to behold.

If we want to talk sexism and capitalism...
We have all day to explain how sexist it is to insist the person wearing the washing up gloves must have breasts and how capitalism drives the proliferation of selling gender drugs to kids.

But we've done this a gazillion times and I for one have shit to be getting on with.

Im glad. Its a shame youve called it a tantrum. I think its just holding strong convictions in my beliefs. Not one of you has argued convincingly that mocking people is ok. And you hate it being done back even when its not even about your pain and suffering

This is really not what this is about. I keep saying multiple times I do not care what pronouns you guys use and that it does not impact my life in any way shape or form.

Well, quite.

You’re mixing my posts up with someone else’s, mate

You don't have to defend anything you don't stand for.

But why are we bigots if we refuse to use preferred pronouns? We’re not bigots if we chose not to join a Christian colleague saying grace over their lunch or for not joining a muslim one when they duck out to pray in the faith room … because it is accepted that we don’t share their beliefs. And we’re not expected to. We simply have to be respectful of their right to have their beliefs and to practice their faith. They don’t stand up and accuse us of being bigots as a result of non-participation… so why do you say not using preferred pronouns would -should- confer bigotry status? (Esp as we would only use pronouns about them, not to their faces because we use their names when directly addressing them - so the faith equivalent is not only shared participation in a religious act of observance in the presence of colleagues but also in their absence!)

So why say that society judges us for it and you wouldn’t give us a job, then?

We are constantly told that trans people are living their best lives and just going about their business but you are saying they are in pain. You are lumping all trans people in the same bracket but there are a wide range of reasons people transition. You need to look into AGP. There is no pain there, I can assure you.

im not saying you are - but you get labelled that.
I get labelled a tin hat guy for sharing outside the mainstream ones. And I don’t get why you would do it to others knowing how it feels when people do it to you.
which goes back to how to talk respectfully about beliefs that differ from my own, which I was saying I try to do on forums

I called it a tantrum. Because you seemed to have descended from somewhat muddled posts to outright 'you're soooo meeeean' posts and many of us have experience with exactly that type of temper tantrum with toddlers when Mummy won't agree to the chocolate/toy in the shop/extra time at the playpark.

Exactly this. To hop on a feminist board and tell women they don’t understand sexism and capitalism while simultaneously defending some of the tenets of entirely sexist and capitalist-driven ideology is quite the sight to behold. Particularly when many of the women being labelled as not understanding or ignorant have reached their positions largely through critiquing and criticising capitalism and sexism.

The idea that they, and only they, are aware of inherent sexism within AI (a set of systems largely developed by men in an industry that has been largely ‘pro-trans’) is just the cherry on a largely unappetising cake.

Because you were insulting my work first and why would i hire someone who thinks what I do causes danger to vulnerable people

Im not saying you don’t understand. Im saying you all think you’re above it because you’re clever enough to spot it and that’s just arrogant. Youre bombarded all day from birth. To think you’re immune to me is arrogant

I haven’t insulted your work at all so I assume you mean the general “you”. You insulted people with my views by saying you couldn’t employ us, before I responded to you.

Fair enough. I’m feeling quite attacked and piled onto for believing that humans very susceptible to manipulation and propaganda, even the ones who think the are enlightened. I’m also being accused for thinking I’m the one who first noticed ai - lol I sent you a study of someone else saying it. Clearly I didn’t notice it first.
this is why I get annoyed. I just end up being assigned opinions I never had in the first place