feminism or transphobia?

[giraffezoo]

Long time lurker of this forum, first time poster.

I have read through many of the threads on here and I have to say there are lots of views that I find quite shocking.

There almost seems to be two sides of the ‘gender critical’ movement on here that I can see.

The first seems quite reasonable. They wish to have protections in place for women and their rights. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree (e.g. trans folk in toilets, transgender prisoners etc) they are stating a view based on safety and women’s rights.

The second bunch are the ones who I find myself disagreeing with, and who post things that I personally consider as transphobic. Some examples of this would be: refusing to use someone’s pronouns or citing being transgender as a mental illness which needs to be cured.

I feel that the first group are genuinely feminists who are concerned with women’s rights, and feel as though they need to speak out on their own concerns. The second group are masquerading under the pretence of feminism to say hateful or controversial things.

I am interested to hear other views on this point (and I’m sure there will be a lot here who don’t agree with me!)

I'm quite sure I don't want to know.

It feels like when someone you've been chatting to tells you suddenly that where they live they're not allowed pencils and have to write in crayon. It throws a whole new light on the conversation, and you find yourself thinking back to reinterpret everything you thought you understood.

Lol I’m the best in my work and constantly get told I am but I’ll make sure I don’t help you

you keep asking about me and I give you info and I’m the weirdo one
bave you guys heard of Darvo? You are experts. You’re horrible to anyone who doesn’t agree with you. My beliefs are weird and apparently that makes me terrible at my career which you don’t even know what I do? Give over. There’s a reason why there’s only about 10 people who regularly post here and it’s because you’re all horrible sheep. I am laughing at you now: like seriously. People call you crazy bigots and you’re the first to call others crazy. Like i said you can’t make this up

Also don’t do counselling: said many times I don’t give therapy. Not one of you can actually read or communicate clearly

I believe ai is the Orwellian thought police, psychiatry js soma and America is going back to mein kampf

Respecfully, you might be an over-sharer.

Respectfully, you called me neutral and boring and scared to have strong opinions. So you asked

No, not I.

Right you are Napoleon, you keep working on the Metric system.

I'm really happy to hear that. Honestly. And yes, you're right, it is!

Thanks again for your post. It really did give me a fresh perspective.

Please could I ask a question? Did you believe you were inanimate objects or very firmly want to be or something else? I'm just trying to understand what that would be like. Obviously don't answer if you don't want to, it's absolutely none of my business!

All the very best to you.

Just another day on FWR 😁

Thank you. It depends on my age and the circumstances. Most of the time now I don't identify as anything.

This is from my best guess as an adult, many decades later, so I'm not sure how accurate it is. It started when I was young so I think I actually thought I was e.g., a boy, a rock, etc. at least sometimes. I think I did it mainly when I was being abused, as a way of dealing with the pain. If I was a rock, no one could hurt me and I didn't react as much. Or if I was a balloon or butterfly, I could float away.

I think I almost was in a trance. I also did it automatically as a way to escape other things. I tried to be the thing I was identifying as. I don't think I actually believed I was an inanimate object when I was older but, even as an adult, I'd slip into a kind of trance state of identifying as,. e.g., a rock, to deal with things. I felt like I was that object but as an adult I knew I was not that object, at least when I wasn't in my object-state. I didn't think about it either way, it was just a way to cope. It can also be part of a flashback but I didn't figure that out until much later.

I don't think I started to identify as a woman until I was pregnant and gave birth.

Sure thing 😊

But I find it deeply offensive to have the meaning of language changed in order to promote a lie, all for cult fad that people are following because they are scared not to. Pronouns at the end of emails etc. A lie that then gets filtered down to children.

If it had been a case of the odd one in a thousand transsexual ok. But not the ubiquitous spreading of highly mentally dangerous rubbish.

Thank you so much for replying and for your explanation. I'm so sorry that happened to you. Jesus.

I can see why you would think that to cope. It makes so much sense. It really hits home.

I wish all the very best to you and your babba.

Xxx

What really makes me rage is that women like GV and another pp are women who truly need and deserve support and help are completely outspoken by men like AidaP.

And people who 'have been trained' and who are (in my experience) safeguarding leads, CAMHS professionals, social workers and teachers sea lion it on without a thought.

There’s a reason why there’s only about 10 people who regularly post here and it’s because you’re all horrible sheep.

🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑
Yes I know that's only 9 but don't forget there's MyAmpleSheep😁

edited to ad a 9th sheep😏

Please can you show where I have been horrible to you.

i post here regularly.

I find it strange that you’d be laughing at me as I’m not sure what I’ve done to deserve that? Laughing that I was violently raped? Laughing that I habe trauma around that? Why?

I am autistic, for reference, so I am aware there are things I don’t “get” and this post is definitely one of them.

"Please call me the n-word."

Would you do it?

"Trans" is an invented ideology, and many of us just don't believe in it. Humans are sexed beings, as are all mammals. Every human, like every mammal, is born male or female and cannot choose to be otherwise. Men wearing dresses is no more meaningful than women wearing trousers. There is no such thing as "living as a woman" as no 2 women live identical lives. Our sex is in our DNA, in every cell in our body and in our chromosomes. Every human can tell the difference between a man and a woman, no matter how they dress-men and women are different shapes, they move differently, their voices are different, the distribution of fat, muscles, hair and face shape is distinctly different. Animals can tell men from women, especially dogs and cats. Telling children that they have been "born in the wrong body" is evil, pure child abuse. Cutting off healthy breasts and penises is vile mutilation and any doctor who does this should be prosecuted. Is that clear enough? No feminist of any type should collude with "trans", it is pure misogyny to pretend that a woman is just an idea in a man's head, a costume he can put on or take off just as he pleases.

Did @giraffezoo ever answer this?

I don't know if they did or not, but for some reason mumsnet says I'm watching this thread although I don't remember posting on it before. So I'll give it a go.

Absolutely fucking not. Ever. Trans acceptance wasn't a think back then, but if either or both of them declared themselves to be women I would be absolutely incandescent. I wouldn't expect anyone else to use preferred pronouns either.

Think you lost the argument and all credibility the moment you mentioned you were a conspiracy theorist….😬

Telling children that they have been "born in the wrong body" is evil, pure child abuse. Cutting off healthy breasts and penises is vile mutilation and any doctor who does this should be prosecuted

It is evil child abuse and it is all over the place in plain sight.

Na. There's a universally applied concept here. If talk incoherent poorly thought out and not very well reasoned bollocks you'll get short shrift here.

The conversation here recognised some years ago that being nice is irrelevant to the ability to be constant and to apply equality and rights to all - including protections for transpeople.

It recognised that sex is recognised by everyone including those who deny it, so what's the fucking point in pretending differently?

It recognised that there's a lot of people who are grossly naive and think all trans people are saints even whilst some bend over backwards to accommodate toxic behaviour they wouldn't tolerate from anyone else. (This is a lot like women in toxic relationships which is why it tends to get recognised more on MN because we know and understand the scripts).

Ultimately we should not apply law and rational because of emotive arguments. We should apply law and policies back on drier safeguarding protocols which recognise how emotion can be used to erode healthy boundaries and protections. These law and policies have to recognise sex because we all do - being trans itself relies on a reference to sex and even in denial trans people can not fully ignore their sex because biology.

We also can not pretend that gender isn't undermining existing laws on sex discrimination based on stereotyping. The more it's doubled down on that we have lady brains and someone always knew their gender based on their toys and clothes the more we regress for everyone else who is nonconforming but not remotely interested in trans as a concept - which is perfectly within their rights.

Transpeople can exist and have protection. What they can't do is dictate how others perceive them, have the law work on a wimb because they think there should be unworkable exceptions nor should we erode safeguarding because that safeguarding makes them sad.

The fact that lots of people still haven't worked out these underlying truths (which you see people every day coming to the same inevitable conclusion because you can't square a circle) isn't MNs fault nor problem. If you are hitting this same brick wall of reality and don't like the messengers for stating what is essentially the bleeding obvious that people just don't want to see/admit to it's not our fucking problem.

It's yours. Own it.

Spoilt little children demanding the impossible eventually hit the end of the road despite mummy's efforts when mummy realises she will never be able to satisfy impossible demands and her efforts to try and provide the impossible regardless always end in a self created mess because she wasn't honest and didn't say "I'm sorry darling thats just not possible but this doesn't mean I don't love you". And actually fucking deal with any resulting tantrums once and for all until the kids get the message.

You know what? That’s what happens to you guys the moment you refuse to use people’s proper pronouns. People just judge you as bigots. It’s a shame you think any beliefs outside of mainstream are bizarre and lack credibility given sexism and capitalism are mainstream beliefs but there you go.
i don’t care if you find me credible. I couldn’t give any of you guys a job because you can’t even be polite about pronouns ergo your too controversial for any kind of public facing work 🤷‍♀️