feminism or transphobia?

[giraffezoo]

Long time lurker of this forum, first time poster.

I have read through many of the threads on here and I have to say there are lots of views that I find quite shocking.

There almost seems to be two sides of the ‘gender critical’ movement on here that I can see.

The first seems quite reasonable. They wish to have protections in place for women and their rights. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree (e.g. trans folk in toilets, transgender prisoners etc) they are stating a view based on safety and women’s rights.

The second bunch are the ones who I find myself disagreeing with, and who post things that I personally consider as transphobic. Some examples of this would be: refusing to use someone’s pronouns or citing being transgender as a mental illness which needs to be cured.

I feel that the first group are genuinely feminists who are concerned with women’s rights, and feel as though they need to speak out on their own concerns. The second group are masquerading under the pretence of feminism to say hateful or controversial things.

I am interested to hear other views on this point (and I’m sure there will be a lot here who don’t agree with me!)

You’ve converted me

It’s always enlightening when the grandiose statements come out.

Yep

The abusers' mantra: look what you made me do.

@mattala It is not women on this thread who are lowering trans identifying men down, it is you who is elevating them up.

Up and above other men. To be given special privileges to access women and girls.

Who might be attracted to that?

Is the bar for being mean stating that a man is a man? I went back and looked and I am not sure whether it was mean that we pointed out that men are men even if they say they are not, or whether that wasn’t mean?

What was actually “mean” apart from the terrible lemon analogy was not particularly clear.

Oh I’m the abuser after being goaded for an hour straight? For using a metaphor like you guys do??And also abuser suggests some form of power. Were two women arguing on a forum. She didn’t make me do it but I don’t react in a vacuum. At some point you’ve got to know if you insult someone continually they’re going to get pissed off with you

Genuinely, can you specify what hatred on these boards has kept you from posting? I like to hear different perspectives. What do posters say that shows that they ignore the perspectives or basic humanity of trans or gender questioning people? Can you give some recent examples of purposeful disrespect on this board?

I don't want men, including transwomen, in women's/girls' single sex spaces or services. Is that disrespectful, in your opinion? If it's not inherently disrespectful, are some posters advocating for that in ways that makes it disrespectful? What are they doing that makes it disrespectful?

Why do you think that legal challenges are "persecutions"? Is wanting activities and spaces away from men, including transwomen, a persecution in your opinion? If not, what about the actions makes them persecutions?

What was mean about my wasp analogy? Just a metaphor right?

When did I say they get special priveleges? None of you guys actually read all my posts. You just enjoy a signal virtuous pile on

Do you imagine that I cared about that 😂

Oh no, someone called me an “annoying wasp” in their Main Character life!

Well apparently I’m now your abuser so you know

Hang on. I am really confused now.

Haven’t you spent pages now telling us that we shouldn’t be mean (did we establish what was mean and what isn’t mean???) to someone who provokes a negative response?

Isn't that what you were complaining about people doing, yet you have just done it?

I am actually really confused now what point you thought you were making .

Well after being accused of being a hypocrite I thought I’d go the whole hog and reflect this posters behaviour back at them but it hasn’t worked

Stay away from The Wasp Factory

I am also very confused.

It probably doesn't help that I skipped a few pages.

So, was your posts just another version of ‘I agree with what you say, but I am going to censure the way you say it’?

I read back and I am still as confused.

No it was I agree with you but I don’t want to mock trans people and I don’t like it when other people do

Well, no. You demonstrated nicely why some people insult others when they are provoked.

So, just the opposite of what you were telling women to do.

And what again was mocking behaviour that you believe is a pattern enough to mention it as being so problematic?

Or did I demonstrate how it jsut made me look bad and didn’t achieve very much?

Did it make you feel better?