feminism or transphobia?

[giraffezoo]

Long time lurker of this forum, first time poster.

I have read through many of the threads on here and I have to say there are lots of views that I find quite shocking.

There almost seems to be two sides of the ‘gender critical’ movement on here that I can see.

The first seems quite reasonable. They wish to have protections in place for women and their rights. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree (e.g. trans folk in toilets, transgender prisoners etc) they are stating a view based on safety and women’s rights.

The second bunch are the ones who I find myself disagreeing with, and who post things that I personally consider as transphobic. Some examples of this would be: refusing to use someone’s pronouns or citing being transgender as a mental illness which needs to be cured.

I feel that the first group are genuinely feminists who are concerned with women’s rights, and feel as though they need to speak out on their own concerns. The second group are masquerading under the pretence of feminism to say hateful or controversial things.

I am interested to hear other views on this point (and I’m sure there will be a lot here who don’t agree with me!)

Yes I think the capitals was definitely the wrong way to phrase it and I aplogise for that

No one is “defensive”, they are just calling out the absurd assertions you’ve spouted on this thread.

So you've been banging on about how mean we are but it turns out that no one actually has been

Then don’t!

You all keep saying you don’t want to be kind anyway and then when I say your behaviour can be mean you get defensive and say nooo we’re kind and my brain is hurting. I’m sorry if I offended anyone. I’m just explaining my values in this movement as someone who does think we need single sex spaces but also believe that trans people’s wish to change gender should be taken seriously

So don’t do it. And then accept that other people may choose a different way of interacting than you do.

Would you shame an abuse victim for reacting (legally of course) to their abuser? If a poster on this board feels abused by male posters, why do you feel you should be able to shame them for reacting back, just because you would choose not to.

I’m not shaming but equally I can say to that person I’m not sure this is in your best interests to act like this and I don’t want to be involved?

Can you then apologise to the people where you denied that you were doing it and made out it was their problematic interpretation / behaviour ?

And equally people can call out hypocrisy and tone policing.

So don’t get involved !

If you declare a woman is ‘being mean’ to someone she has judged to be abusive towards her is not ‘shaming’ her, you seem to be doing at the very least what you deny doing - tone policing. But worse, you are trying to control a woman’s reaction to feeling abused. Why would you be involved in any case?

I haven’t toned policed that’s the thing. I haven’t told you guys what to say or do. I’ve laid out my boundaries. There’s a difference. If you think my boundaries are hypocritical that’s a different conversation but please don’t accuse me of policing. You are the ones jumping on my tone and telling me I can’t write a certain way because it’s mocking and tone policing

Rule Ten innit?

But has every single trans person abused you?

NB. When women are told to 'be kind' on this subject, it usually has nothing to do with genuine kindness to others. It often just means 'shut up and stop wanting single sex spaces to actually be single sex, as this makes some male people sad, and as they are male they are more important than you female people anyway',

It is a very loaded term.

You were particularly exercised about tone policing earlier. And dictating how a woman should talk about receiving rape threats from abusive men is highly likely to meet the definition of tone policing.

You’re a hypocrite. You’ve tone policed everything I’ve said and attacked me too. You can’t have it both ways. You seriously just want an argument. If I could block you I would now

Exactly. So much main character stuff from FWR’s detractors. If you don’t approve of women here, you’re under no obligation to read their posts.

And yes my response was not only tone policing it was life policing. Because in your logic as you did it to me first it’s ok for me to do it to you right?

But what does taking their wish to change gender even mean? How do you 'change gender'?

Everyone can read your posts mattala.

What?

Good. I don’t care. I am a human being with a Temper. I have limits. You bait a dog you get bit

The point being made is that taking testosterone doesn't turn a woman into a man, just as taking a raftload of vitamin C doesn't turn a person into lemon. The first is just as impossible as the second. The second is more obviously impossible to people who don't understand mammalian biology. No one is comparing gender dysphoria to fruit.

Policing someone's choice of metaphor is policing how they say something and not what they say.

But you know that already. Instead of posting in bad faith, why not read the Finnish study that indicates that transition makes people's mental health worse?

That's a bit mean