feminism or transphobia?

[giraffezoo]

Long time lurker of this forum, first time poster.

I have read through many of the threads on here and I have to say there are lots of views that I find quite shocking.

There almost seems to be two sides of the ‘gender critical’ movement on here that I can see.

The first seems quite reasonable. They wish to have protections in place for women and their rights. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree (e.g. trans folk in toilets, transgender prisoners etc) they are stating a view based on safety and women’s rights.

The second bunch are the ones who I find myself disagreeing with, and who post things that I personally consider as transphobic. Some examples of this would be: refusing to use someone’s pronouns or citing being transgender as a mental illness which needs to be cured.

I feel that the first group are genuinely feminists who are concerned with women’s rights, and feel as though they need to speak out on their own concerns. The second group are masquerading under the pretence of feminism to say hateful or controversial things.

I am interested to hear other views on this point (and I’m sure there will be a lot here who don’t agree with me!)

Yes you did. An eye for an eye is what you said. You said women saying no to men is as bad as a rape threat. Own it. It’s fine. I mean, we’re all judging you but hey, that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it.

One. But you don’t need to make insults about every person wit similar characteristics. You can’t use abuse as an excuse for prejudice.

So how do women know which males with a trans identity are safe abd which ones want to commit violent acts against us? Is there like a sticker or a badge?

You are putting words in my mouth now. An insult is an insult no matter what the severity of the insult is. If you judge me for not engaging feel free.

No and this is why we need single sex spaces and why I get so pissed off. I can believe this and still not want to go around insulting people who disagree with me

That's not what was said. They said they'd have no idea what it was like to experience life as a man or a dog or a lemon. That it's nonsensical because you can't experience life as it is for anyone else except yourself.

Literally nothing about becoming a lemon.

@mattala
Over the last decade there has been a huge global push to roll back womens rights in favour of males who identify as women. This has come from politicians, charities, celebrities, institutions, governments, etc etc.

In the UK, there has been a significant push back to this, in other parts of the world less so. Here you can no longer be fired for GC views, but on these pages you can read from time to time of people in other countries risking losing employment, fines or even jail for "crimes" like misgendering.

There is absolutely no way the UK would be in the moderately sane position we have managed to reach if our feminists were constrained by having to use the language of the very ideology that they are battling.

You may see blunt language as unnecessarily cruel, but cruel or not (and i'd argue not) it is completely necessary.

so if a dog bites you and then you’re afraid of all dogs, is that prejudice or a legitimate reaction? Rape victims are afraid of all men, even those wearing fancy dresses.

As someone who suffers with this I would call it a trauma repsonse… whether that’s adaptive or not is for you to decide in your case. In mine I find it really negatively impacts my life

How is saying no to a man an insult? Or calling a man a man?

You are mocking women objecting to rape threats. This is not the respectful position you claim to espouse.

So good it is worth re-posting.

I know I said I’d seen it in other threads not this thread

I really never said it was. I was talking about when people make mocking comments like oh I’m a lemon now or a shark and you all jumped down my throat

Lucky no one has done that then. Women are talking about the experiences they have had with members of this group. They’re all men. Are we not allowed to be critical of men on a feminist board? Interesting approach.

There you go, and if someone told you that you now had to spend time in spaces with dogs or you're a nasty evil bigot who deserves to die would you be ok with that?

Im suggesting that women who use past behaviour to justify problematic behaviour should do other things instead. Like seriously you’re just putting words into my mouth

Perfect analogy.

Anyone who saunters in and starts calling for women to just “be kind” is no feminist, ally to feminists, or in any way on the same path as feminists.

I’m so tired of people trying to compel women’s words, thoughts and behaviours. Just stop already.

I didn’t say you can’t but people will have a problem if they’re part of that group and not a rapist yeah

What is problematic about saying no to men?

What “problematic behaviour”?

Oh good lord. I’m not saying be kind. I’m saying I don’t want to insult people. Anyone. I don’t think it’s a productive use of my time. You disagree; fine.

These particular men mostly aren’t rapists, I imagine. They are rape threateners. I will call out the problems many men have in respecting women, every time.