Transgender hate on mum's net

[Steph2002]

I'm just wondering, I see so much hate on here about transgender woman and not a lot about transgender men. Does everyone on mum's net hate Transgender women and if so why? I don't mind sharing a toilet space with a transgender woman in fact my best friend is a transgender woman and she is the nicest person you could ever wish to meet and will protect any woman no matter where they are. I would hate to be sharing a toilet with a hairy masculine transgender man, which seems the way people want to go why? Am I the only person on here that supports trans gender women, if so I need to leave. How many people that hate Transgender women have actually met one and had issues with one I'd love to know.

OP, please educate yourself on transgenderism. I have a young adult child with autism and complex mental health conditions who believes they are the opposite sex. So in essence a big hairy man in a dress who thinks/feels like a woman and therefore ‘is a woman’. As soon as they can get themselves on hormones they will and then presumably the next step will be Surgery. There are a whole group of autistic young people caught up in this mess and they deserve safeguarding. They deserve people like the intelligent, brave mums here who are not afraid to question the ideology and promote discussion on the subject. They are the people who are truly helping my trans identified young person not people who stupidly believe that it is as simple as being “born in the wrong body”.

He has reported it himself in the international media, as noted above. Is his own word not good enough for you?

I am intrigued by Steph's "men in dresses" who are not to be allowed in the ladies'. Is there a term for such guys?

And what's with the prejudice against body hair, Steph?

You are not entitled to give away other women's rights - while you may be happy to share a toilet with a man, many are not.

That's not actually true. Lots of people were very pleased when the FWS ruling gave transmen maternity rights and protection. It's the generic TRA lobby that ignore them unless they are a gotcha.

And we know why that is, because they are women and therefore not important.

Yet again time for this. How many have you spotted so far? I'm going for numbers 2,3,4,5 and 8

1. Women are responsible for what men do.
2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.
5. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.
7. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.

10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad. 11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men. 12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry. 13. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves. 14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent. 15. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others. 16. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

I can’t even unpick what’s wrong with this. Do you genuinely think men’s toilets are full of rapists? Do you think only stunning people get raped? Why was it ok for my male children to use men’s toilets when they became too old to accompany me but not ok for your adult male friend?

Because, funnily enough, humans are really good at recognising sex in other humans with a tiny margin of error. It was obvious he was a man.

You're absolutely right - a genuine transwoman would never post about wanting to abuse women by fucking them with a splintery rolling pin, would they?

IIRC, Khelif had already failed a sex test at this point in time.

There is no hate! Bloody hell OP, it's not a difficult concept - we're happy to share facilities with women but not men.

If a transwoman i.e. a trans identified male was a decent person who had even a shred of empathy for the real women who are unhappy with males in female single sex spaces then they would stay away. Instead they keep fighting real women to gain access and repeatedly centre their own desires and gratification over what actual women want and over actual women's rights, dignity and safety. If women stand up to them they fly into a rage and make violent and sexually violent threats to women who cross them. If that isn't the very epicentre of male entitlement I don't know what is.

But where's your evidence for that? Do you know her / him / them?

I say this as someone who is both a sports fan and and a feminist.

I don't want men to compete but I also don't want women to be put off competing lest they get to the top of their game and everyone descends on them saying they must be a man because they aren't pretty enough.

There is such a massive difference between those scenarios.

In the first scenario the man (let's call him Rose) goes into the changing room to perv on women, women report him to staff/management and say "he's a perv", Rose goes "I'm not a perv I'm a trans woman". Case closed. Rose continues to perv.

In the second scenario when Rose says "well actually I was born a woman, I just look like this because I transitioned". Management/staff/police ask for proof of this. There is no proof because it is a lie. Rose is sent packing back to the men's room/fired/arrested depending on how bad his behaviour is.

See the difference?

@Wonderingaboutthing
Another media article reporting Khalif's report of his SRY gene here
Boxer Khelif reveals 'hormone treatments' before Paris Olympics

Which is why doing a quick and simple sex test before competing is good for everyone, right? There'll be no doubt as to what sex anyone competing is, and no speculation. I wonder why certain people are vehemently against that, though?

I think trans men should probably use male spaces as men aren't threatened by them.

I don't want to share anywhere where either of us might be vulnerable, semi clothed or naked with a person who has a penis.

I definitely don't hate transwomen. As long as they acknowledge that they are a separate category. Not the same as a bio woman. That there are certain female only things that they can't be a part of.

But of course they should be treated with the same respect as any other member of society.

And if someone wants to be called a female name and socially be known as 'she' then I can manage that. It's no skin off my nose to use people's pronouns of choice. But they are trans. They're not female.

When they are supposedly such a tiny minority, 0.5% of the population I think we are told, don’t you think it’s odd that your child has “several” trans friends?

On that horrid Imane chap in the boxing ring.

We all knew he was a man.

If you didn’t have a problem watching his female opponent look terrified and forfit as a bloke pummeled the shit into her then theres something wrong with you. Same goes for many other sports but especially boxing.

You’re not kind, you’re an advocate for male on female violence.

You need to have a think about where you get your news from. Many lies have been promoted by sources we all used to think were reputable, in order to enable men to access women's sports, prisons, changing rooms, bathrooms, hospital wards, rape crisis centres, associations, prizes and shortlists.

If you want to trust a journalist you could do worse than Nick Wallis, the journalist who did the most to bring the Post Office scandal to everyone's attention. He started looking at gender ideology a couple of years ago, and has been horrified by what he has found.

Of course, lots of female journalists have been sounding the alarm for much longer but I'm name-checking Nick Wallis because his work on the PO Scandal spotlights his integrity on a completely unrelated topic.

But why would she hate to share a toilet with a biological woman who chooses to represent themselves as masculine? The only reason she could give was that they were hairy and masculine. Would she also hate to share a toilet with a masc or butch lesbian? A woman with hirsutism? There's no deliberate misrepresentation, just an attempt to put a stop to all the sexist, reductive stereotypes.

OP how do you tell a genuine trans person from a non genuine one? Do they have to be gorgeous to qualify? Are all the requirements based on stereotypes? What boxes does a person have to tick to be 'genuinely' trans?

Thanks for proving the lack of transphobia on this board. Transmen are not talked about because they are women and therefore, not a threat to other women. The majority of posters on this board want to retain female single sex provision hence the fight back against males, no matter how they identify, using them.

"...raped in seconds..."

Stupid, hyperbolic, childish crap.

I don't 'hate' anyone. I spent a lot of my life being confused about my own gender and presenting in a very masculine way, even going by a male name at one point, and surrounded by other similar people. So I want you to realise that what I'm saying is not from a lack of experience with non-gender conforming lifestyles or from any place of malice. I would treat every individual with respect and kindness whether they believed they were the opposite sex or believed they were Tutenkhamun.

People are sick of being gaslit. They're tired of having to pretend that biology isn't real, or that it doesn't matter. They're tired of having their safety and needs and experiences as biological women ignored. They're tired of having to play along make believe with a set of delusions to fit into what is ultimately a sexist, misogynistic and homophobic ideology that everyone is forced to subscribe to and not allowed to question.

I'm sure your friend is perfectly lovely, and maybe their struggles with gender and identity are very real and painful, as mine were. However, that fact does not make them a woman, just like mine never made me a man. And some people would argue that pretending otherwise is neither kind nor helpful to the person in question.

It also does not mean that no man who claims to be a woman does so with cynical or ulterior notices, or because of a sexual fetish. To be so naive about this puts women and girls at risk.

People are tired of being told they are 'hateful' for caring about truth and reality.

It wasn't just the evidence of our eyes looking at him, and the greater knowledge we now have of DSDs, but when he sat on his trainer's shoulders post fight, something no Muslim woman of my acquaintance would ever do.

It’s a funny thing, well an odd thing really, but in all the years I have been reading MN, especially the Feminism threads , I have never seen anyone posting hatred about TIM.

I have seen plenty of posts highlighting the foul abuse that TIM and allies pour on gender critical women, the threats, the physical bullying and intimidation, the cowardly masked figures with their vile shouts and placards, but I have NEVER seen it reciprocated by posters on here.

Yes, there are strong objections to TIM trying to muscle in on single sex spaces , there are many very amusing comments and ripostes when TIM try to justify their actions by claiming ridiculous and unscientific reasons for their behaviour, there are many kind and easy to read explanations to explain why genetic men can’t become women, and vice versa. There is sadness at the way young women, and young boys, who are still finding out about their sexuality are targeted and drawn into an Alice in Wonderland world of lies, half truths and twisted language. I have read desperate posts from parents who see their vulnerable children confused by online persuaders and fear for their present and future health and mental wellbeing. Many of the posters on here are not against trans identifying men, or women, they recognise that these are people battling with confusion , misinformation and sometimes mental illness and I have seen many posts expressing compassion for people who have been persuaded that black is white, up is down, and that sex is a matter of choice, not genetics. I have also seen anger , not hatred, when people who have a defined sexual fetish try to claim that this gives them rights and privileges denied to others.

But, I have not seen hate, only women trying to preserve the language,the physicality, the legal rights and the need we have for separate spaces for reasons of dignity and privacy.