Do you feel that gender identity exists and is innate?

[FairHippopotama]

In progressive circles, there's the concept of 'gender identity' where everyone has a gender (not necessarily corresponding to their sex) that is unchangeable and inherent to them as a person. Do you agree with this? Why or why not?

It’s not progressive to me, to say that we have some inner gendered soul, based entirely on sex stereotypes. That is what gender identity theory is.

No and no. It is a regressive social construct.

Other people impose gender on you, certainly.
That doesn't mean that you have such a thing as an innate gender identity though - it just means that people recognise (or guess) your sex and treat you differently as a result.

Because you look like whatever your sex is, which impacts how people treat you. The society we live in is sexist. Ergo you experience sexism whether you identify with having a gender or not, which informs how you see yourself and how you expierence the world. If you want to argue for the UK being egalitarian by all means I’m for it

I have experienced sexism because of my sexed body, not due to a gender identity.

Yes, I agree that how I present affects how I am treated - but that has nothing to do with a gender identity. For example, if I walk down the street wearing a clown suit I’ll be laughed at. So would a man. Unless clown-identity is also a thing.

Do I think conforming to regressive sexist stereotypes that harm and oppress us is inherent in us? No.

I have answered on threads like these for over a decade now, under various usernames.

Knowing what sex I am is not an “identity”, it’s just knowing a fact about myself. Society, culture, other people, may then make assumptions or try to influence my behaviour because of my sex, but that isn’t an “identity” that is innate to me. There are differences in my life compared to men because of my sex, but again, that’s not an identity. So, no, “gender identity” is not an innate universal concept.

Gender appears to basically be a bunch of regressive sexist stereotypes. And those are imposed by a patriarchal society, not innate.

If you can form your identity beyond how you interact with your surroundings more power to you.

No but it’s one assigned to you and if you don’t conform you face consequences

I have had periods of moderately strong gender dysphoria and periods without it. That would look like evidence against innate gender identity to me (though genderloons would presumably say I am innately genderfluid or something).

In my better periods I can't say I particularly "identify" with a gender, the best solution to my issues is just not to think about it that much.

Exactly. There’s nothing progressive about gender, the world would be a better place without it.

@mattala oh I am an experienced non-conformer to sexist stereotypes, and people can assign what they like to me but it’s clearly an external imposition.

A few days ago I watched a tiktok by a GC woman (can’t remember her name) saying there was no such thing as gender dysphoria, but I disagree.
If I have to wear clothes I don’t feel like me in I feel physically ill. Luckily I grew up in the 70s and 80s when clothes were not as gendered, loads of girls had short hair, having strong preferences on appearance was never a problem, we just wore what we liked and no one cared. I do think I have an innate preference for comfort and practicality.
Fast forward to now clothes are heavily gendered, the vast majority of young girls have very long hair. Those that have short hair usually identify as non binary or trans rather than, you know, being able to be girls who don’t like stereotypically girly things. I believe gender dysphoria is a result of squeezing people into rigid stereotypes, which works for some but not for all. Still not a gender identity though.

No. Gender identity often springs from seriously outdated and regressive stereotypes of how women and men should behave. Take away the stereotypes and what is left? Just people’s personalities and sexual predilections.

What do you think op?

I have a personality and I’m a woman by sex.

There is just what we like and what we don’t like.

If I like Yorkshire’s on my roast I like Yorkshires on my roast - if one day someone had decided Yorkshires was a more female thing to like it wouldn’t make me more or less female because someone who came before me decided that.

Just like pink - someone decided pink is a female colour but me liking the colour pink does not make me more or less feminine, it’s just a preference for a colour.

Sexism is based on biological sex - the clue in the name.
Women are treated differently to men because of their sex - its that simple.

Im no less of a woman if I drink pints watching rugby than I am drinking a cocktail wearing pink.

No. Gender is a social construct, a set of ‘rules’ that are based on absolutely nothing. Any kind of ‘gender identity’ we may have is the result of ingrained conditioning that starts from birth. Baby girls are dressed in soft colours and given dolls and teddies and kitchen/home maker toys, and encouraged to be gentle and quiet and caring, and baby boys are dressed in trousers and trainers in bolder colours and given trucks and construction toys and encouraged to play rougher, and not encouraged to be gentle and caring. There’s nothing innate about any of this, it’s all bullshit.

How is it ‘progressive’ to impose ‘consequences’ on a woman studying engineering or with short hair?

But until about 5 minutes ago this was recognised as boring old sexism, nowt to do with 'gender identity'.

As you rightly say, you can't identify out of it, because it's based on how people/ society perceive your sex.

Your gender identity, should you have one, has bugger all to do with it.

Women in Afghanistan aren't kept at home and out of sight because of their gender identity, it's because of their sex . I doubt they could identify out of their treatment either.

PS thanks for the heads up, OP. I'd never heard of gender until you kindly enlightened me 🙄

what makes you think I think our society is progressive? It is not.

What consequences? It’s such a regressive attitude.

Many of us are old enough to have grown up in the 80’s when men could wear dresses and make up and women had cropped hair and wore suits and toes and yet were clearly still their sex - no one was pretending that presenting differently made you change ‘gender’

Sexism is linked to negative gender stereotypes that influence how you are treated. This is precisely why women are kept downtrodden.
the difference between me and you is I see the world for what it is. Women don’t have equal rights, even the ones who are best treated are still subjected to constant discrimination. Is that because of actual real facts about women or because of how society perceives them?
I cannot say I’m exempt from gender expectations. They were drilled into me from birth. It’s like unlearning brainwashing. It’s a conscious every day choice

Go and disclose a rape to the police and tell me we’ve got equality

And that’s due to biological sex not gender stereotypes

I don’t get your points. Everything you’re arguing about is sex related