Daughter in early 20s lonely due to GC views

[Currentquandry]

My daughter is in her early twenties. She is GC and is struggling because so few of her peers have similar opinions. She is very lonely because of this. Are there any online groups she could join to give her a sense of community? She is also ND. Thank you in advance for your advice…

I don't know ... the OP expressed her appreciation for the suggestions and advice she got earlier in the thread and it sort-of took off after this.

It's always a bit of a dilemma whether to counter posts which are either inaccurate, or offensive, or both - and there has been an array of inaccuracy and offense on here. There was more than one poster posting, don't forget!

I think this has developed into quite a useful thread because it brought out some of the facts and figures that can be brushed aside with 'women don't mind' or 'all opinions are valid', 'the Supreme Court ruling was unclear' etc.

If it has done anything to the rep of this board, I think it has shown that overall, posters are well-informed and can draw on reliable and verifiable sources.

Sometimes there's nothing irritates people more than have facts and figures which challenge their opinions.

Sometimes nothing irritates people more than facts and figures being waved away.

You can either let clear inaccuracies stand, and let anything and everything be said, 'all opinions are valid', or you can discuss them.

This board is often the discuss-y kind, as well as often being the supportive kind, but that's not a bad reputation to have, is it?

Excellent points.
Hopefully the poster won't look at any other Mumsnet boards where threads take on a life of their own - often after the OP disappeared ages ago. She'll be very disappointed. 😅

Any meaningful sense such as being vulnerable to prostate cancer?

This board exists to discuss this issue, and as a result it sometimes attracts people who directly want to challenge the most commonly held view.

Why should people refrain from discussing an issue on a board that was set up to do it? Doesn't make sense to me. Nobody is forcing anyone to read it, or engage.

I will never ever understand why some women are in favour of allowing, or encouraging men in women's spaces, sports, services. These women do not consent for me or other women that do not want men in their spaces.
Our rights are not theirs to give away.
It isn't as simple as being afraid of seeing 'a penis' in the changing room, although I don't want to see one, thanks.
Some women are misogynists, clearly. Why else would they argue for men in womens' spaces?

Thank you very much for the suggestion. I have already pointed my daughter to this board but will do so again. I have been given some very useful advice which we are already following up on. The discussion has been fascinating and lively (!) with so many intelligent, articulate and knowledgeable posters. I am grateful for the information and analysis shared. The fight against misogyny and VAWAG must continue with focus and passion and this board gives me hope that it will—and be ultimately successful.

I think the thread morphed into live demonstration of what the OPs daughter will be facing.

The false accusations of extremism by people who hypocritically hold extremist and fringe opinions that are actually harmful to female people. The use of platitudes that seem progressive and kind to dismiss others opinions when the others opinions have been argued with evidence support.

The positioning of women centring women and children as the problem and that articulation of their reasons why as being just as much as a problem.

This thread really has thoroughly covered what keeps young women silent. There were even suggestions in the thread that the OP’s daughter and the OP should even stop discussing it together.

So many ways to try to stop women sorting through their thoughts.

What a lovely post.
The great thing about this board is it attracts some of the most intelligent and insightful women (along with the occasional man). So you get high quality legal minds, political insights, knowledge of children and safeguarding, psychology and family dynamics, scientists, experts in sport, VAWG etc etc.

It does generate considerable opposition from some quarters who get very unhappy with knowledgable women expressing facts and opinions. They can generate a lot of DARVO.

But twas ever thus.

This is a hilariously wrong-headed comment. This board is an absolute cesspit of misinformation, prejudice and ignorance, and posts like this are the reason why - there's no interest in the GC movement in facts, just feelings, so anything that doesn't "feel" right to you, even if presented with evidence, you just gently waft away and continue on repeating all your falsehoods to each other in your echo chamber. After all, if you read it on mumsnet, it must be true, mustn't it?

Is 'humans can't change sex' a fact or a feeling?

Just so I can gather your understanding of what these words mean.

Echo.... echo....echo...

<listens carefully>

Ah yes, there it is ⬇️

It does generate considerable opposition from some quarters who get very unhappy with knowledgable women expressing facts and opinions. They can generate a lot of DARVO.

'Presented with evidence'. Where?

The only people I see posting links to evidence are the women who are fighting to retain single sex spaces.

I second that, thank you for your lovely post Currentquandry.

I hesitate to offer advice to your daughter, totally unqualified to do so.
Except... I'm going to anyway😃

I was out of sync with my contemporaries when I was a teenager, for a number of reasons.
I think you can have one of two reactions: either
I wish I was more like everybody else and people liked me more,
OR
I'm a bad-ass rebel who doesn't follow the crowd, I was 'born standin' up and talkin' back, me.. [Elvis curled upper lip optional]🤘

OK so I never really rocked the latter completely, but it is a useful affirmation when you feel you'll never be one of the popular crowd.😁

I've just reminded myself of another line from popular music that I quoted to some schoolmates when I was a moody 15 year old: Paul Simon's
I am a rock, I am an island.

One of them, who was probably all of 15 and a half, but in the year above me, looked at me as if I was a worm and said -
'I used to think that was a great line.... when I was still in your year'.
Cringe😕

Best wishes to you and your DD.

To be fair @Waitwhat23 'presented' was preceded by 'if' and 'when' so largely hypothetical

Your DD would be ever so welcome. Sending you both all the best.

The only misinformation was your pal @GlovedhandsCecilia repeatedly lying about opinion polls & now your lies about the contents of this thread. Neither of you produced any evidence of anything at all let alone anything to support your desperate entreaties to allow special men in female single sex spaces. You are beneath contempt. Why not scuttle back to your echo chamber in https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/ ?

😂

Yes, I'm still waiting to find out where those other surveys are - the ones that must go to a different school.

edited to add : Thank you, @Helleofabore , for all your facts, details and referencing.

"scuttle back to Reddit...."
🙄
Who says anyone is from Reddit? People really can't bear other voices, can they
We're back to insinuations, othering and "scuttling" when we're all just normal people, on Mumsnet

.

What a shining example of projection, ad hom and a bit of DARVO - well done.

How do you feel about this as a fact?

No one can change sex.

And

Sex is the relevant factor in segregating spaces/services/sports, not self proclaimed ‘gender’.

That’s all we need.

It’s a shame you haven’t got any convincing facts. I would so love to be wrong.

“This board is an absolute cesspit of misinformation, prejudice and ignorance, and posts like this are the reason why - there's no interest in the GC movement in facts, just feelings, so anything that doesn't "feel" right to you, even if presented with evidence, you just gently waft away and continue on repeating all your falsehoods to each other in your echo chamber.”

I think we can categorise this post as projection. I think most of this thread have had FWR regulars responding to correct misinformation, and purely emotional reasoning and manipulation. We have also had numerous requests for evidence links rejected with accusations that we will used uninformed points to dismiss that evidence undeservedly, rather than acknowledgement that maybe some posters do have valid reasons why they argue that the evidence doesn’t stack up to what the poster may want it to support.

Sorry, missed your advice to the OP, what was it?

I'm sure there's a word for what you did there, i.e. completely skewing by 180 what happened in this long discussion - there was evidence aplenty provided by, for instance, Helleofabore who posted detailed evidence about public opinion polls on the issues in questions, [around 15.00 today in case you missed them].
Requests for similar evidence to support statements like that most women agree with men using women's facilities went unanswered.

Direct quotes from court cases, tribunals etc , providing references to the exact paragraph = 'feelings'?

A feature of this board - this is a point which I've made several times - is that it favours facts, figures, stats, verifiable sources, etc., which obviously is tedious to some people, but it is the exact opposite of 'I read it on MN so it must be true', it's 'I read it in a reliable, verifiable source so I tend towards accepting it and I'm sharing it here on MN for others to consider and discuss'

Did you set yourself challenge, to see if you could reverse all the facts so nothing in your post is based on reality?

You are gc but think nobody should talk about it? Lest they lose friends, I guess.

Fuck me, if we all had that attitude we'd never have got the vote.