Daughter in early 20s lonely due to GC views

[Currentquandry]

My daughter is in her early twenties. She is GC and is struggling because so few of her peers have similar opinions. She is very lonely because of this. Are there any online groups she could join to give her a sense of community? She is also ND. Thank you in advance for your advice…

That is unfortunately the logical conclusion of 'all opinions are valid' - there are some atrociously offensive opinions in society, as you well know, Gloved, and I can't believe you think they are all valid.

I'm guessing that you apply some sort of standard to the wide range of opinions that are swirling around in society, and while respecting the right of people to hold any opinion, it seems reasonable that you don't have to either agree with, or facilitate opinions that you feel are damaging to you.

So yes all opinions, regardless of who holds them, are valid in some absolute sense, but are they all equally desirable in what we would like to be a just society?

Yes there are. I know that makes you angry but there are. Lots and lots of women sre fully supportive of TW in female spaces and are currently campaigning to overthrow the ruling. You have to deal with that reality. Their voice will be deemed as important as yours because it is on this issue.

They are going to have to come up with some unequivocal facts and legal arguments to do so, just their opinion that TWAW won't cut it. All these arguments will have to be heard in public not behind closed doors, be justified and stand up to challenges. I look forward to hearing them.

They are campaigning to overthrow a Statutory Law so they better have some very good and solid justification for doing so.

They will fail, because the only way to "overthrow" the ruling is to legally re-define 'Sex' and re-write the Equality act. Trying to re-create the law to include men in the category of women would also, of course, have all sorts of implications for other protected categories in the act too. This would have to be openly debated at a national level, and then pass through both chambers. Good luck with that.

I'm truly astounded that some women, including those who think of themselves as feminists, seem to think that the established rights and protections of women - including those who have different views and beliefs to themselves - should be over-ruled, and that some women can consent on behalf of all women and girls.

To my mind this is pure ideological zealotry and has nothing to do with centring female people.

The problem is that when it comes to what thing is worse, it comes back down to subjectivity. The numbers are never going to be identical and just because there is a lower risk of Outcome X, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is better to avoid the more commonly occurring Outcome Y. Outcome X might have more objectively devastating consequences.

I’m sure there are such women. They fought against the suffragettes and they still fight against the interests of all women.

We have truth, logic and fairness on our side though so I think their ‘campaign’ will end the same way.

Yes there are. I know that makes you angry but there are

This is a statement without evidence. Without evidence, it is an assertion which could be a fact but equally, could be incorrect ⬆️

Lots and lots of women sre fully supportive of TW in female spaces and are currently campaigning to overthrow the ruling. You have to deal with that reality. Their voice will be deemed as important as yours

This is a fact ⬆️ "Lots" is unquantifiable without evidence but it's observably true, given how many women speak out publicly in favour of including TW in (some or all) women's spaces. That's not the same thing as surveys demonstrating how many women's opinion this represents.

because it is on this issue.

This is an opinion ⬆️

Presumably you and I agree on these distinctions?

Where we appear to differ is the validity of the opinion. Presumably you think my opinion that TW should not be in women's spaces is valid (based on me being a woman and it being my opinion), but I don't think yours is. Is that a fair summary? I fully support you holding it, I just think it's nonsensical.

Edited for clarity.

Exactly
We're all men, or we're all furious 🙄
As you say it's just another tool to try and paint different voices as nefarious, as enemies

In addition to the post I quoted, GhC aimed this at another poster at 14.05:

"I get that it is tempting when a topic makes you angry or a person not agreeing with you makes you frustrated, but in civilised company, it makes you look really vile".

There's a fury and disrespect in that comment and I was simply pointing it out to someone who has so much to say about the tone and thoughts of posters on here. And yes, I'd assumed she is a she as I thought I recall her talking about being a mother to a uni aged girl way back?

I completely aqree that sadly some women always centre men no matter what the facts / situation. The Relationships board shows that even if in real life we're lucky enough to have more balanced friends. Some women are careless about women's safety and child safeguarding as we know.

One constant is the fury that women bring down on ourselves when we point out the law, facts about male violence and challenge the demands of men to access women and girls undressing.

The issue of so-called 'policing' was directly addressed by Justice Swift in dismissing the Good Law Project etc. challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance -

40 The notion that an employer or anyone else is required to “police” the use of a lavatory, person by person and day by day, reveals the application of a “logic” so strict that it is divorced from reality and from any sensible model of human behaviour.

It should be sufficient for the provider of the facilities to make clear that they are segregated by sex, that sex means biological sex, and that should be that.

It is up to the individual to abide by that policy, there wouldn't be a need for 'policing' them into doing the right thing, if everybody just respects the policy, and respects other people's spaces.
In a workplace setting, if somebody persistently uses the toilet not designated for their sex, it would be a disciplinary matter.

I'm neither raging or frantic.....I prefer reasoned argument with supporting evidence. I suggest it is you.....who has persisted for two days in fighting with other women on a board that is dedicated to women's sex based rights and protections - that is the one that most motivated by pure emotion.

I really don't care for your "respect" as you've already demonstrated that you have none for other people through your words and behaviours. And you are now trying win points and deflect away from the issue at hand to issues of racism.

There seems to be a repetitive cycle going on here on this thread regarding the degree to which people in the UK support female single sex provisions. I think that is some confusion here between what the polls actually show.

A statement was made early in the thread that:

" On the core question of whether Britons believe someone should be able to socially identify as a different gender, the public still tend to say that they should, by 49% to 35% who say they should not. "

This was based on the 2024 data that I had also posted, but Batties had posted to the overview report of.

This is only a true statement for intent and it does not continue to remain true when interrogated further when specific application questions are asked.

This not 'reading the same information and coming to a different conclusion'. It could be considered to be misinformed conclusions being formed though.

Because when the information is drilled down to where specific questions are asked where respondents have to directly answer where they support male people's inclusion, it shows a different story to those who superficially agreed that people should identify how they wish.

This is also consistent with other polling too. It is not just an interpretation of this data I am about to link, it is the interpretation of other polling by professional pollsters asking neutral questions and not leading questions as well.

Here is the trending data set gained from a professional pollster and tracked. And again for those who seek to dismiss it, the questions are asked neutrally with no leading and it is asked across a wide sample of respondents.

YOUGOV UK TRACKER COMPARISONS

The following is the data from UK trackers from 2018 - 2024 tracking public opinion as part of their series of 'Where does the British public stand on transgender rights'. 2018 results included where they are available.
Here are some of the results that relate to the needs for female people to have single sex provisions:

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…

Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 27 [16] 12% 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 15%
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74% 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 26%
Don't know 25 [22] 14%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 11%

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 42 [34] 25%. 2018 - 2024* this is decrease by 17%
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 58%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 25%
Don't know 25 [23] 17%. 2018 - 2024 *this is decrease by 8%

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 13%
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%. 2018 - 2024* *this is increase by 20%
Don't know 23 [21] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 47 [39] 29%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 18%
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 55%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 28%
Don't know 26 [25] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

No surgery question was asked in 2018

And the specific non surgical question from 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...
Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024
Should be allowed 26 [25] 19%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 63%. 2020 - 2024* *this is increase by 17%
Don't know 28 [27] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

Use women's toilets?
Should be allowed 31 [29] 23%. 2020 - 2024* *this is decrease by 8%
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 60%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 19%
Don't know 27 [25] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

And finally:

This question was also not asked in 2018
Do you believe that allowing transgender women to use spaces reserved for women, such as women's toilets or changing rooms, does or does not present a genuine risk of harm to women? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024

Does not present a genuine risk of harm 39 [32] 25%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 14%
Does present a genuine risk of harm 32 [39] 55%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 23%
Don't know 29 [29] 20%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2018.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2020.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_TransgenderIssues_220720_final_extraXbreak_FINAL.pdf

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Transgender_study_2024.pdf

There was also a Sex Matters poll done within days of the YouGov tracker. These are the results of it compared to in the past too. Just pulling them together, the Sex Matters (2533 adults polled) results were often more supportive than the YouGov results (2078 adults polled).

It was sponsored by Sex Matters and done by YouGov as an independent polling consultancy.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/SexMattersGender241219ZMwbM2T.pdf

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…

Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024 SM (YG 2024)
Should be allowed 27 [16] 11%SM 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 16% (YG 12%)
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74%SM 2018 - 2024 SM this is increase by 26% (YG 74%)
Don't know 25 [22] 15%SM. 2018 - 2024 this is SM decrease by 10% (YG 14%)

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 42 [34] 27%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is decrease by 15% (YG 25%)*
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 56%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is increase by 23% (YG 58%)
Don't know 25 [23] 17%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 8% (YG 17%)*

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%SM. 2018 - 2024 SMthis is decrease by 13% (YG 29%)
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is increase by 20% (YG 55%)
Don't know 23 [21] 16%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 7% (YG 16%)

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 47 [39] 31%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 16% (YG 29%)
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 47%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is increase by 20% (YG 52%)
Don't know 26 [25] 22%SM. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease SM by 4% (YG 20%)

And the specific non surgical question from 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...
Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024SM (YG 2024)
Should be allowed 26 [25] 20%SM. 2020 - 2024SM this is decrease by 6% (YG 19%)
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 62%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is increase by 16% (YG 63%)
Don't know 28 [27] 18%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 10% (YG 18%)

Use women's toilets?
Should be allowed 31 [29] 26%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 5% (YG 23%)
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 58%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is increase by 17% (YG 60%)
Don't know 27 [25] 16%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 11% (YG 18%)

Here is another sponsored one, still done by professional independent pollsters:

SEX MATTERS / JL PARTNERS SINGLE SEX SPACES POLL MARCH 2026
Sex Matters commissioned a poll of 1,500 UK adults with the results released in March 2026.

The overall results were:
For each of the following, do you prefer them to be single sex or mixed sex?

Changing rooms in gyms and leisure centres
Single sex 84% (Male 79%, Female 88%)
Mixed sex 10% (Male 13%, Female 6%)
Unsure 7% (Male 7%, Female 6%)

Changing rooms and showers at work
Single sex 86% (Male 83%, Female 89%)
Mixed sex 8% (Male 10%, Female 6%)
Unsure 6% (Male 7%, Female 6%)

Public toilets, for example in parks
Single sex 81% (Male 77%, Female 85%)
Mixed sex 13% (Male 17%, Female 9%)
Unsure 6% (Male 6%, Female 6%)

Workplace toilets
Single sex 78% (Male 74%, Female 82%)
Mixed sex 14% (Male 19%, Female 8%)
Unsure 8% (Male 7%, Female 8%)

Toilets in a pub or entertainment venue
Single sex 81% (Male 75%, Female 86%)
Mixed sex 13% (Male 17%, Female 8%)
Unsure 7% (Male 8%, Female 6%)

A transgender person is someone who says they are the other sex, that is, a person born male who identifies as a woman, or a person born female who identifies as a man. How do you think transgender people should be accommodated in toilets…

At work
They should be allowed to use whichever facilities they prefer 21% (Male 18%, Female 24%)
They should not use facilities for the opposite sex but there should be an alternative 33% (Male 27%, Female 38%)
They should use the facilities of their sex at birth 36% (Male 44%, Female 24%)
Unsure 12% (Male 11%, Female 14%)

In gyms and leisure centres
They should be allowed to use whichever facilities they prefer 19% (Male 15%, Female 23%)
They should not use facilities for the opposite sex but there should be an alternative 34% (Male 29%, Female 38%)
They should use the facilities of their sex at birth 36% (Male 46%, Female 26%)
Unsure 12% (Male 10%, Female 13%)

At university
They should be allowed to use whichever facilities they prefer 20% (Male 16%, Female 23%)
They should not use facilities for the opposite sex but there should be an alternative 32% (Male 27%, Female 38%)
They should use the facilities of their sex at birth 37% (Male 49%, Female 26%)
Unsure 12% (Male 10%, Female 14%)

In a bar or entertainment venue
They should be allowed to use whichever facilities they prefer 20% (Male 17%, Female 23%)
They should not use facilities for the opposite sex but there should be an alternative 32% (Male 25%, Female 37%)
They should use the facilities of their sex at birth 37% (Male 49%, Female 26%)
Unsure 12% (Male 10%, Female 14%)

In public toilets, for example in parks
They should be allowed to use whichever facilities they prefer 19% (Male 15%, Female 23%)
They should not use facilities for the opposite sex but there should be an alternative 32% (Male 27%, Female 37%)
They should use the facilities of their sex at birth 37% (Male 48%, Female 27%)
Unsure 12% (Male 10%, Female 13%)

In hospital
They should be allowed to use whichever facilities they prefer 20% (Male 15%, Female 24%)
They should not use facilities for the opposite sex but there should be an alternative 30% (Male 25%, Female 35%)
They should use the facilities of their sex at birth 35% (Male 47%, Female 25%)
Unsure 11% (Male 9%, Female 12%)

How do you think transgender people should be accommodated in changing rooms and showers…

At work
They should be allowed to use whichever facilities they prefer 19% (Male 15%, Female 23%)
They should not use facilities for the opposite sex but there should be an alternative 35% (Male 29%, Female 40%)
They should use the facilities of their sex at birth 35% (Male 47%, Female 23%)
Unsure 11% (Male 9%, Female 12%)

In gyms and leisure centres
They should be allowed to use whichever facilities they prefer 18% (Male 15%, Female 21%)
They should not use facilities for the opposite sex but there should be an alternative 36% (Male 29%, Female 42%)
They should use the facilities of their sex at birth 35% (Male 46%, Female 24%)
Unsure 11% (Male 10%, Female 13%)

At university
They should be allowed to use whichever facilities they prefer 18% (Male 14%, Female 21%)
They should not use facilities for the opposite sex but there should be an alternative 35% (Male 29%, Female 40%)
They should use the facilities of their sex at birth 36% (Male 47%, Female 26%)
Unsure 12% (Male 11%, Female 12%)

Here is the link to the data:

https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Omni-Sex-Matters-polling-March-2026.pdf

A link to the article:
https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/new-poll-shows-most-people-prefer-single-sex-toilets-and-changing-rooms/

I don’t think you’re a man. You just prioritise them over women.

Someone needs to run the idea that 30% trump 60% past John Swinney and the SNP. I bet he'd fully agree.

Now, can we have an informed discussion about how many is 'lots and lots'?

And the UK is a democracy. Of course, some women will be campaigning to 'overthrow the ruling' . Great! That is democracy in action. And yes, we 'have to deal with that reality'.

"Their voice will be deemed as important as yours because it is on this issue."

Only to a point. Their voices will be deemed as important (to listen to) as yours because it is on this issue.

If a law meant for protecting the population on the basis of sex class is unusable because 'sex class' cannot be defined, the law will simply not stand and will have to change. Yes, people are free to challenge this as it is a democracy. But this is the law as it stands today and has been clarified by the Supreme Court here.

Also, if an over all convincing argument can be made about safeguarding needs for female people, I doubt that thousands of women voicing their lack of support will be more convincing than knowing there will be a safeguarding issue. Because if a safeguarding gap is exposed, popular opinion leaving the government open to legal action will not be convincing.

We are talking about safeguarding issues here, after all.

Either way, Labour also has been watching the polls move away from including any male people in female single sex provision.

This is difficult to decipher but I'll try my best. I do understand that it's not always easy to come across as intended. I've experienced that myself.

The numbers are never going to be identical

The number of TW who wants to use women's spaces will never be as high as the number of women who use them. If that's what you mean, I agree.

Or maybe you mean the number of males who identify as women (who commit sex crimes) will never be as high as those who don't identify as women (who commit sex crimes). If that's what you mean, I agree.

just because there is a lower risk of Outcome X, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is better to avoid the more commonly occurring Outcome Y.

Do you mean that keeping TW out of women's spaces will lower the risk of all sexual assault (outcome X) but that doesn't mean it's better than keeping other males out because other males represent a higher (absolute) number of those who will commit such crimes (where those other males represent outcome Y)? If so, I think that's a moot point. The risk of sexual assault is lowered by keeping all males out of women's spaces. It doesn't matter how they dress or whether they believe themselves to be women.

Outcome X might have more objectively devastating consequences.

For who? I doubt the women who get assaulted by males would be any less devastated if the perpetrator was a TW or just an average bloke. Arguably they may be more devastated if they had assumed that a TW would be safer than an average bloke.

Or do you mean that it would be objectively devastating for the TW to be kept out of the women's space? It could be subjectively devastating, yes. There will be TW who are lovely people who feel genuinely upset. This is sad (for the TW) but not a reason to let in all TW. Objectively? No. Equally, it could be performatively devastating as part of an autogynophile's fetish fulfilment. Those who enjoy putting on these performances are very adept at coming across as lovely TW, only dropping a few clues here and there to suggest otherwise. Hiding in plain sight being a thrill in itself.

Edited for clarity.

On a different note, you say you’re running an event for BAME female DV survivors. If a white man turned up and wanted to join the group as he identified as a black woman, would you let him join? If not, why not?

"The problem is that when it comes to what thing is worse, it comes back down to subjectivity. The numbers are never going to be identical and just because there is a lower risk of Outcome X, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is better to avoid the more commonly occurring Outcome Y. Outcome X might have more objectively devastating consequences."

I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

Laws and policies are not about wholly (maybe not even by any large proportion) 'balancing' risk in this way, if that is what you referring to. Just because one group of male people may experience risk in male single sex provisions is actually in no way a justification that they should have the additional privilege of accessing female single sex provisions.

If 'risk' was the deciding factor, then discrimination principles would need to be applied to all other vulnerable to risk sub groups of male people and they should then receive that privilege too. For that to even be workable some things need to be understood.

Firstly, what are the female single sex provisions there to achieve, and will the achievement of this be prevented in anyway by the inclusion of a sub group that are from outside that category.

Next comes another aspect of discrimination. What are the category boundaries for all those vulnerable 'at risk' sub groups of male people?

Then also comes another aspect of what is the definition of the category labelled 'risk'.

Because if the female single sex provision has been created to protect female people from any harm that comes from having a male person who is not female included in that provision, then the harm can include any manner of issues. Including the harm that comes from female people self excluding because those male people are there.

That is why @IggyPopsPlasticTrousers solution of completely mixed sex provision is untenable as a stand alone solution. It is contradictory to the concepts of why the single sex provisions were created in the first place.

Goddess bless all those who continue to offer reasoned arguments, evidence, stats, data, and civil questions, despite it all.

You'd think a SC judgement would be enough to clarify law.

Just got to keep buggering on, really.

Blanket statements such as 'all opinions are valid' are actually just as meaningless as 'be kind'.

These are platitudes.

37 pages of rowing with one poster, and not much advice for a concerned mother. I can see why this board has a bit of a bad rep now. Sort of proving people’s point that being loudly vocal about your GC opinions is not a great idea sometimes.

Before anyone comes for me, I am very much GC. And I have name changed for this because I have contributed to this sub-forum fairly often and feel that I’d be unwelcome to do so in future if I posted this under my usual username!

Where we have to have single sex spaces, they should accommodate trans people in the space they feel most comfortable in.

And to hell with what the human support animals (ie women) want and where they might be most comfortable.

A fair point! 😬😬😬

Hopefully the mum has enough useful ideas to help her daughter.

Hi, OP if you're still here 💐

I will admit that I haven't RTFT, so someone may already have suggested it, but becoming a member of this board may help with feelings of loneliness to a degree. Obviously none of us can rely on anonymous people we'll likely never meet in the same way as we would want to with IRL friends, but it's helpful to be here and realise you're not alone. So if it's not been suggested already, my suggestion to the OP is for her daughter to join this board. It's not always easy being part of these discussions but I've found it helpful for me to get my thoughts straight on the whole subject of gender identity, in the face of some of the IRL madness around me.

Oh we know that being loudly vocal about GC is often not a good idea.

Which is why many stay silent in public.

Which is why many feel isolated.

Which is why many come to this board to air our views.