Daughter in early 20s lonely due to GC views

[Currentquandry]

My daughter is in her early twenties. She is GC and is struggling because so few of her peers have similar opinions. She is very lonely because of this. Are there any online groups she could join to give her a sense of community? She is also ND. Thank you in advance for your advice…

You know why they can't do that.

That's good. It's wearying having to repeat myself all the time.

Have a good day.

Indeed.
Which is why there's a determined attempt to decriminalise voyeurism and indecent exposure.
"But ultimately, I believe that the right of trans women to have a space to shower / pee / get changed is greater than the right of non-trans women to be protected from the occasional sight of a penis". (my edit)

"It's just a penis, just a small penis, not an erect penis, get over yourself, pearl clutching prude for not appreciating a stranger's penis".

All aimed at girls and women of of every age. Where children are concerned it's also an assault on their right to be safeguarded as well as what the criminal law is meant to protect children from. But as we've seen for the last decade, specifically targeting children with the belief that they have no right to privacy and safety from the opposite sex is a major occupation for some transactivists.

You know why they can't do that.

They don't get validated by women in the Gents?

Nope, not the minority @IggyPopsPlasticTrousers - poll after poll after poll is quite clear about what the majority think about men in female changing rooms and toilets.

On this, your 'get over your hang ups' is the minority view.

Another tactic for trying to change someone's mind is "you don't know enough and that is why you are making a bad choice".

Commonly used by people when arguing about birth plans and things like that. Doesn't matter if you're choosing a birth in the sea or an elective cesarean. The same thing will be said to you by some people who disagree with your choice.

'Transwomen' are men by definition. 'Men' are not included in the category of 'Women'. 'Male' is not included in the category of 'Female'.

We have single sex spaces, services and categories in certain types of situation for good reason, based on a millennia and more of recognising some of the differences between males and females - and then by understanding the benefits of accommodating some of those differences.

Females are at a disadvantage to males in certain ways: ways that revolve around biology, phyiscality and the sexual response - this is the same across most species. Having some female only categories permits women and girls to achieve, excel, have dignity and respect for their difference to males. It also permits a more female centred culture ( and values) to flourish -away from male domination, concerns and inclinations.

Women and girls are all different to each other because they are also individuals (as well as just being biological females) - but that doesn't negate their essential, foundational alignment that is rooted in 'Sex'.Class, race, disability, nationality, religion are not foundational differences. 'Sex' transcends all of these categories.

Yes, you've already said how tedious you find it - and yet here you are, repeating the same thing over and over (in between telling us that it's so tedious you're off to the gym). Quick workout, was it?

Tbf though, if that is her day job and she’s providing (and presumably setting up/breaking down) all the sound equipment, why wouldn’t she get a credit?

It could help her professionally and sounds a little bit mean to expect her to do lots of work with even an official thank you.

At my kids’ school music events the sound people get a credit as well as being paid (they give a discount).

We don't just have single sex spaces so SA victims don't get traumatised by seeing members of the opposite sex. It's the convention in British socety that personal functions like toilets & changing rooms are single sex facilities. It's for dignity, propriety etc

You want to abolish all single sex spaces which is an extreme view not supported either by legislation or the British public.

It wouldn't help her professionally. She isnt building a career. I think you need to reflect on why, at an event that is about BAME women who face DV, in the wake of a black mother and her child being murdered by her ex partner, the need for a white woman to get praised for lending some equipment is deemed to be a priority of any kind.

Don't you think that's a bit... needy?

Only 45 minutes. I'll go again later.

Got to burn off all that chocolate somehow! :-)

Why?

If we are going to use your own sentiment, why can’t a group of male person ‘get over it’ (whatever their reason is) and use the male single sex provisions or do what the female people with transgender identities tell us they do and plan their activities to make sure they have an alternative solution ?

Did you know that female people with transgender identities who don’t want to use the female single sex provision and understand that male people need privacy too, have created a communication / media sharing platform specifically for themselves so that they can do this?

Plus we know there are male people with transgender identities who DO use the male provisions. So, to use your approach, why can some and not others?

I don't want to abolish them at all. Personally, I think mixed spaces are better - would go a long way to breaking down the ridiculous taboos we Brits have over nakedness; the Scandinavians do this so much better imo - but I recognise that's impractical.

Where we have to have single sex spaces, they should accommodate trans people in the space they feel most comfortable in. That's my view.

Ok. That is different.

Wow - you downed that coffee, finished that chocolate, got to the gym, jumped on that treadmill, and raced back, all in under 90 minutes. Your determination to return to this thread that you find so tedious to tell women to reframe their trauma and get over their hang ups is quite something.

We do keep having Scandinavians coming to this board and having to clarify that there is a difference between families being naked together and publicly open nude spaces.

Presumably you're insinuating that they'll be attacked in the mens?

So you are implying that this man will be attacked by other men who you know nothing about.

While also arguing that trans-identified men who you also know nothing about are safe and should be welcomed in the women's?

These are men. They get changed in the men's. Or they campaign for another space. They do not magically become women because they say so.

Scandinavian countries are not immune from sexual violence, pornography or the exploitation of females by males. In fact the rates of sexual assault and violence tend to be higher This is referred to as the 'Nordic paradox'.

'Equality' doesn't make the essential differences btween males and females go away.

Or they can simply get over their hang ups, reframe their traumas, and look the other way?

It seems that poster thinks it's only women who should be required to do that.

We have single sex spaces in order to prioritise female comfort. What is it you don't understand about this? Why do you think male comfort should be prioritised in what is meant to be a female space or category?

Where we have to have single sex spaces, they should accommodate trans people in the space they feel most comfortable in.

You can't have single sex spaces that accommodate both sexes.

Unless you change the meaning of words.

The gym is 5 minutes drive away. I could have walked, but it's cold out.

Feel free to ask me any other questions about my daily routine. I don't mind.

But ultimately, I believe that the right of trans women to have a space to shower / pee / get changed is greater than the right of non-trans women to be protected from the occasional sight of a penis.

But if all they're doing is having a shower and getting dressed, then what's the damn problem?

So your position is that we don't need single-sex spaces at all. Fair enough, it's good to understand that this is your perspective.

There are lots of reasons why women-only facilities were created (after not previously existing) but there are some people who don't believe it's necessary. It sounds like you're one of them.

Although I've never experienced sexual assault in a changing room or toilet myself, I support single-sex facilities based on the statistical evidence that they reduce (though obviously don't entirely remove) this risk.

Unfortunately the risk will never be zero. There will always be males who are so determined to break boundaries and gain access to women in order to satisfy sexual urges. But if everyone knows that there are single-sex facilities and no males should be in the female ones (unless it's a cleaner, with a sign clearly displayed so that women can choose to enter or not), that goes a long way to reducing risk. If the boundaries are blurred for any reason, and some males are allowed in, that risk (by statistical definition alone) goes up.

And for anyone who believes that TW wouldn't do that kind of thing, here's a list of 236 that did:

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/this-never-happens

The list isn't specifically about changing rooms and toilets, it's a list of males who identify as women who have predated on women or children. Given TW are such a small proportion of the population, the odds that some will do this kind of thing seem disproportionately high from these successful court cases alone. There will presumably be others who weren't caught.

The main problem here is that, until a sexual assault is committed, there is no way to tell which TW is simply trying to shower/pee/get changed and which is working up to something like this. The most obvious answer is to have single-sex spaces without any blurred boundaries. If TW experience discrimination when using male facilities, they can campaign for access to additional third spaces. In some cases those spaces may already exist (e.g. accessible toilets that welcome disabled people, parents changing babies' nappies etc) but they would need to prove that they weren't putting too much strain on those existing facilities. If they were, they could campaign for more provision. Equally, they could campaign for males to be more inclusive in men's facilities.

Edited for typos.

I suspect that it’s more to do with her politics, and a deep belief in ‘being kind’. I suspect this blinds her to the violations that we’re seeing everywhere of women’s rights to privacy, dignity, safety, prizes.

I suspect it’s also the common issue of people failing to understand the fetish aspect of much trans, believing instead that it’s a deep-seated ‘identity’.