Daughter in early 20s lonely due to GC views

[Currentquandry]

My daughter is in her early twenties. She is GC and is struggling because so few of her peers have similar opinions. She is very lonely because of this. Are there any online groups she could join to give her a sense of community? She is also ND. Thank you in advance for your advice…

Given that we are just as bad as the TRAs supposedly: have we issued a guide about how to smash things up yet:

https://www.thetimes.com/article/b52af465-f370-4c6f-9ff2-3d98bd919b33?shareToken=b3e078cdd53c9d7e773631bafce351a7&ver=article

I will speak on this changing room issue specifically.

There are a lot of the pro trans lobby, and here I am speaking about Natal women particularly, who seem not to like men very much and fear them a lot. While claiming to be progressive in many instances, they have double standards when it comes to prejudice towards men: racism, body shaming, all the things you see them talk out about most avidly and lecture others who they think aren't progressive enough.

Part of their progressive politics is lobbying for trans people to have full access to changing rooms and use them the same way natal women use them.

Let me tell you about how natal women use my local changing room. They walk around butt naked for IMO, far longer than necessary. There are cubicles and there are ways where you can limit the duration of your nudity. Again IMO, these are steps we should be taking in public changing rooms.

Lots of these women are the same women who seem to simultaneously find natal men (and their bodies) quite repulsive and lobby for trans women to be able to use female changing rooms like they do.

If we did get to a place where everyone accepted a law where it became totally normal to see trans women naked in changing rooms, I don't think those natal women would be as okay with it as they think they will. I think they imagine trans women using their changing rooms, but hiding themselves. It isnt dissimilar to how they treat Black women when they want to take equal space somewhere that is designated for all women.

If the alternative is that trans women can’t go out in public because they have no bathrooms/changing rooms then, sure. Whatever.

Happy to have helped.

Goodnight.

I've sauna'd in mixed sex nude saunas where no one cared.

I've also been perved at in a swimsuit by an otherwise nice man from a culture where women are covered.

Context matters.

In our culture, we still have men excited by voyeurism and female nudity. It would be great if someday that goes away. But until then, throwing the doors open to female nudity in our culture isn't fair to women.

There would of course be the male facilities that they could use.

The argument about just getting over hang ups about bodies is not an argument for ‘trans inclusion’ but instead one for all mixed sex facilities instead of separate ones as we know that TRAs won’t like that anymore than most women do.

Amazing. Thanks for clarifying.

I don’t think I was wrong then. You do actually believe that traumatised women and girls should just get over their trauma and undress with male people.

You also actually believe that is the kind solution. Not that there should be a third space offered which many of the women you have spent the day denigrating have suggested and supported as an alternative. You actually think it is kind and tolerant of female people’s needs to expect them to get undressed with a male person in a communal changing room. Because… You, personally, don’t care and .. Berlin.

Thank you for clarifying your position.

"Reframing your trauma" is a common, widely used and widely recognised technique in therapy for healing from trauma.

Just for the benefit of anyone - as so many people here seem to be - under the impression it was a phrase that Mridul Wadhwa just invented.

https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/articles/imagery-re-scripting-how-to-reframe-painful-memories-and-heal

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10351974/

https://integrativelifecenter.com/therapy-services/narrative-therapy-to-reframe-trauma-and-build-resilience/

https://www.omahatraumatherapy.com/blog/5-ways-to-identify-your-trauma-narrative-and-reframe-it

Hold up. So even the 'pro trans' women aren't simpering enough for you? They'll let males into female changing spaces in order to be 'inclusive' but they're not overjoyed enough in your opinion?

Wow. When even the dick panderers aren't pandery enough...

Is there not a contradiction here though?

On the one hand, you think "people" should be comfortable sharing nude spaces with any type of body.

On the other hand, some "people" will have "no bathrooms/changing rooms" unless they can share with a specific type of body? It's not ok for them to share with any type of body?

Seems like it should be sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander who identifies as a goose (or maybe just wants a gander?), no?

I know.

It still shows that a poster denigrating women for being extreme believes it is kindness and tolerance to expect female people with a trauma history to just get over it and do this. I did think there was an issue with boundaries with the posts this morning minimising that statement clearly suggesting sexual violence.

It has been a remarkable day, hasn’t it?

And what about you - do you think women and girls who have been raped and sexually assaulted have a right to feel safe in single sex spaces, or they should reframe their trauma and get over their hang ups?

No one was under the impression that a male person who took the role meant for a female person and who had little qualifications in trauma counselling but did indeed counsel female trauma victims invented the term.

I’m absolutely fine with mixed facilities; I’ve seen them work well.

but it’s impractical to re-engineer every public bathroom or changing room to be mixed instead of single sex.

If you want more evidence SM doesn't give a shit about women's spaces, consider that if the ponds are forced on appeal to exclude trans women, the most likely outcome of that is that all the ponds at Hamstead will become fully mixed sex, and Kenwood as a women's space will disappear altogether. Which would be a huge loss

But it’s not currently a women’s space. It’s already a mixed sex space. Don’t blame the women who want a single sex space, blame the activists and allies who demand the inclusion of a subset of men. It would only be through sheer spite that all the Ponds would become mixed sex. Transwomen could use the mixed pond or the men’s pond.

'Wadhwa also suggested that sexual violence survivors who had an issue over trans inclusion were “bigoted” and should “reframe their trauma”.'

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,exedinburgh-rape-crisis-boss-mridul-wadhwa-makes-msp-bid-for-scottish-greens

https://thecritic.co.uk/reframe-your-trauma/

'But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so, you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices, because how can you heal from trauma and build a new relationship with your trauma, because you can’t forget, and you can’t go back to life before traumatic incident or traumatic incidents. And some of us never, ever had a life before traumatic incidents. But if you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing, having a more positive relationship with it, where it becomes a story that empowers you and allows you to go and do other more beautiful things with your life, you also have to rethink your relationship with prejudice. Otherwise, you can’t really, in my view, recover from trauma and I think that’s a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues that in various places. Because you know, to me, therapy is political, and it isn’t always seen as that.'

Mridul Wadhwa, CEO Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre on the ‘Guilty Feminist’ podcast

From -
forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

God yes. I can't imagine anyone would in good faith suggest Gender Critical feminists conflate sex and gender!

I will tell you who does conflate sex and gender though - anyone who claims a trans person's gender should give them access to the language, spaces, sports and rights of the opposite sex.

And for anyone unfamiliar with Wadhwa and his views on women https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2edeyzz0xmo

Yep, it's the old "look what you made me do"

And again, what about women who used to use the Ponds and no longer do so because the women’s pond is now mixed sex. We have examples of those women too. Or is it only your friends’ opinions that count?

But they have male or mixed sex spaces?

Quite.

Either spaces are single sex or they are mixed sex.

Right, I see you've gone. Thats a pity. My problem with this is the men who seek to perve on women in those spaces. Do you not see this as a problem?

I'm very relaxed about nudity - but not flashing or voyeurism.

This thread is quite an eye-opening read.

Also, the force-teaming with black women will never fail to irritate me, like it's so transparently insulting and racist at this point, I have to laugh.