Why do leisure centres no longer provide single-sex changing rooms? Women’s Rights Network on the case…

[GreenEyedFeminist]

What is it with leisure centres? Why can’t they give us single-sex changing rooms? This WRN X thread lists some of the cases from this year - I bet there are more. I get why families want to share a changing rooms but surely they could design changing rooms that give women and children a bit of privacy and SAFETY as well as a few cubicles for families. 🤷🏻‍♀️

x.com/womensrightsnet/status/2038709414786453891?s=61&t=HeTVV02FVbA_mwnXH0ymWg

Again wrong
@AidaP you haven't said 1 single accurate thing on this thread.
Specifically designing and/or operating changing facilities that can be proven to be harmful to women, such as mixed sex changing villages with no single sex womens facilities is sex discrimination. It's also potentially facilitation or sexual harassment and assault which are crimes that can be prosecuted by the police or in a private prosecution.
All service providers and businesses have a legal duty not to discriminate against any of the protected characteristics.
So companies are now beginning to return to single sex facilities because they know that they will lose any sex discrimination cases if they don't, whereas they will win against any man who has been refused entry to the women's.
As more and more lawsuit wins are racked up by gender critical women and the continuing loosing streak of the GLP and trans groups its becoming blinding obvious to wven the most obsessed activist that the only way to avoid being sued is to obey the law and give women our spaces back.
I know that this is hard for you but its time to accept that you've lost and you're never going to get what you want as women have said NO and we mean it

true, but as @aidap seems to believe there is no danger to males with a trans identity from men, surely they will be fine. I mean, if Aida dis believe men posed a threat to TIM, they wouldn’t be campaigning for mixed sex spaces. Plus, encouraging TIM to access services for their sex would help them to see men are not that transphobic, and also help men to learn more about gender identity and accepting men who present differently. So win win.

AidaP, this is why women do not want any type of man in women's single sex spaces, particularly transwomen, who are the highest represented group of sex offenders in UK prisons.

Comparisons of official MOJ statistics from March / April 2019 (most recent
official count of transgender prisoners):
76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen = 58.9%
125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3%
13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison = 16.8%

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

The men will stand out in the female spaces and will be told to leave.

Men don't stand out in unisex spaces, and can wait for the opportunity to expose himself or spy on women and girls.

Its false security to imagine unisex areas always being busy with men noticing dodgy behaviour or willing to do anything about it.

I agree that we need men to stay out of women's spaces.

Reader's note:

This is also just more misinformation or more 'you got what you deserved' type rhetoric. The way this has been phrased in this post is : you left organisations no option but to make everything mixed sex, individual cubicles with all your rejection that male people should be allowed into female single sex provisions.

Now you will just have to suck up the consequences and be put into a situation that has also been shown to be harmful to female people. But you deserve it.

The post also then relies on reader's not understanding that the ministry of justice statistics in the UK (and in other countries) show that male people with transgender identities do not lose their male pattern of criminality. The post declares that women have 'forgotten' about the 'actual danger' and then makes the point that it is 'cis het men' responsible. Yes, this is true and if male people with transgender identities remain a very small population will always be true.

However, it is not the entire picture and it is a false generalisation that it relies on to be true. No male person who has stated they have a transgender identity changes sex. They have not changed out of the male category for crime reporting or patterns of criminality. It is artificially and harmfully narrowing the focus away from the proven fact that male people with transgender identities commit sex crimes at atleast the same rate as all other male people, and have the same level in general of causing any harm to female people.

This makes 'you forget about the actual danger, which is cis het men responsible for almost all of those crimes' a misleading and therefore based in falsity statement.

So, not only are we seeing 'you got what you deserved' type of posts, we are seeing outright misinformation being used to support male people accessing female single sex provisions.

AidaP- can you not ever engage without resorting to insults, sniping, aggression? Chucking out 'transphobic'? You might be more comfortable with the women haters on reddit
Almost like you are happy with women's discomfort!

What is a cishet man? (I know, I know)
Aida- it's all men however they identify

Just a reminder of the other common reaction from men we see to our rejection that they are female people in any way.

This is the reaction to being told ‘no, you should respect female people’s needs for single sex provisions’ by a celebrity.
Alexandra Billings self published these videos . This one first I believe.

https://x.com/gaynotqueer1/status/2032811484271817092?s=46

Then the chilling and menacing response to women saying 'no' here stitched into Amy Sousa’s response.

https://x.com/knownheretic/status/2032639781658833142?s=46

The menace is chilling to see. Yet, apparently we are supposed to welcome these same men into provisions designated as single sex for our protection from men threatening and intimidating us.

It becomes so clear that these men hate female people in general when they gloat over not being able to stop them accessing provisions that they should be excluded from and lack the inclination to self exclude from. Just as they gloat over organisational decisions to remove female single sex provisions in response to law changes that exclude male people from those provisions.

At the same time, we are supposed to believe that these men are most vulnerable and marginalised.

Just adding this set of tweets too about a Daviana. Who started posting videos about how he knew he was a man etc. He was considered to be 'one of the reasonable ones' because of that.

Of course, as he has made more videos more has come out about what and how he really thinks. Including his behaviour towards his ex-wife...

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2031523680136868150?s=20

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2031873045682667588?s=20

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2031975467725832460?s=20

These men are chilling once you see what they really think.

The gloating from this man as he also envisions negative impacts on female people because they rejected his demands seems to be highlighting just how common that reaction is from men who don’t get what they want from women.

Billings and Daviana are just two men who are showing women who they really are. It seems some men really cannot help themselves in showing that these demands are also part of the power dynamic.

It makes those ‘you got what you deserved after you rejected me’ behaviours all so familiar.

This video then pulls it neatly together and points out the narcissism of these reactions.

https://x.com/knownheretic/status/2038653939034566875?s=46

It has been my experience that men do not stand up for or protect women they don't know (or even women they DO know sometimes).

The usual protectors of women are other women.

The pool I use has single sex changing rooms with no cubicles and everyone showers and parades around naked in the women's. I much prefer it to the mixed changing pool that I also go to where you have to shower in your costume and then get in a towel to a tiny cubicle where everything gets wet.

Sorry to burst your bubble but that is what's already underway in the redevelopment of our local sports centre.
single sex changing spaces with a separate family area for those with children in the middle.

You do not come across as a pleasant person.

I think that might be a litotes.

Just in case people are confused about refurbishing toilets, for England:

In the Secretary of State’s view, requirement [for building regulations of toilet facilities] is met by ensuring all of the following.

a. Separate single-sex toilet facilities are provided. Universal toilets can be provided in addition to single-sex provision and where space allows. All toilet accommodation should have clear and appropriate signage.

b. Where space precludes single-sex toilet facilities from being provided, fully enclosed universal toilets should be provided.

So for example in b is where you only have one toilet in premises like a small cafe.

The definition in Document T is:
Toilet facilities: Sanitary accommodation that contains water-closets (WCs) and/or urinals, along with washbasins and hand-drying facilities.

This strikes a sensible balance where space only allows one toilet. Misuse in such a toilet is less likely due to the turnover of occupants and greater supervision if something goes wrong. They do need more cleaning and good ventilation though.

Hopefully similar clarity on changing rooms will be made as accessible to read soon.

Think he gets off on women’s discomfort.

It was even worse when the Dolphin first opened as you could use any cubicle you wanted. After about a month they had to designate a male half and female half of the changing room to try and reduce problems.

@spannasaurus I am amazed that a town with a club called the Bird Cage managed to produce at least two feminists.

I don’t remember a male and female half. But as a pre pubescent and early teenage girl me and my friends would have been prey-so maybe the men just came into the female area-there can’t have been any doors or diversions?

There was no physical division between the male and female sides just signs with arrows pointing to the male and female sides.

I used to work there and spent a summer as a changing room attendant. I spent a lot of time chasing boys away from the female half of the changing room.

The receptionist at the Dolphin when it first opened was a feminist (my mum) so that makes 3 of us at least.

Thank you @spannasaurus , and your mum, for your work in protecting the younger me, and my friends.

Bloody Americans! 😡

I don’t see the issue as long as the changing room is cubicles. As a former leisure centre worker in a leisure centre with single sex changing, I can tell you it created constant problems. For example, you get mothers who would not allow their 11yo sons to go in the men’s but obviously some of the other women in the ladies objected to having 11yo boys in there. We quite often had disabled teens or adults come in who were with a parent or carer of the opposite sex. We did have one mixed sex disabled changing room but if that was in use, these people had to use the disabled facilities on the single sex changing area, which was obviously not great. Sometimes, we even had dads bringing their daughters to a swimming lesson and they thought because it was only their daughter swimming they should go in the ladies, which triggered many complaints.

And yes it probably also saves money.

Honestly it’s mostly money and space, separate areas cost more and operators go for one layout that covers everyone and avoids complaints, even if it’s not ideal. But yeah, they could just add more private cubicles, floor to ceiling, proper locks, problem basically solved for most people without turning it into a whole culture war.

No, these people can't. They engage in silly arguments and insults to derail threads they don't like.