TIF Lawyer has meltdown in US courtroom.

[ThatZanyFatball]

This has been making the rounds in the US. Apparently closed her practice the day it happened.

She has, deliberately and with intent and with pain, sacrificed time and money and her future physical health, and probably her mental health, in order not to be seen as female.

Her choice.

To then kick off because she gets what she wanted does not make me sympathise with her.

I had to have a break but watched the end.

This is a woman who likely has a trauma history. She has gone to war with herself. Created this mad story that she is male to try and escape her feelings.

But its not possible to escape reality and function in a healthy way. So she is constantly battling. That ends up creating adversorial situations because she is so defensive and aggressive.

It actually makes me want to cry.

She has mutilated herself, commits self harm and denial daily. That delusion has been colluded with by either equally disordered people and/or medics who make money off her distress and sell the impossible fantasy of sex change.

She needs honesty, and compassion, boundaries and support. Instead she's been sold this story about surgery and hormones and superficial changes to her appearance and adherence to gender ideology somehow liberating her from whatever she is trying to escape.

I dont think we can say simply its entirely 'her choice'. Disorders and mental health issues mean people are not able to rationalise and make good choices, by definition.

Much of the blame has to be shared by the institutions that have supported and promulgated the narratives. Pushed 'trans' pride, covered up the problems, colluded with deranged people, tried to use the issue to prove their moral righteousness and/or a convenient outlet for their homophobia and misogyny.

Society has created this.

Yes, but also no. The judge and the stenographer and the women in the background all grew up in the same world. It's like people under the age of 65 who chose to smoke despite spending their childhoods bombarded with explicit warnings about the dangers.

Yes, I'm sorry when friends and family members get ill, but I also wonder about their life choices.

Although the genderists have tried to get it all their own way for the last five or six years, there has also been a lot of very clear objection. once upon a time people with dangerous (to themselves or others) mental health conditions got sectioned and treated. Maybe society needs an investment in moving back to that, instead of the profitable but harmful pill for every real or imagined ill.

A person making a simultaneous demand to be seen and treated as not-female and as female is not manageable within a court or any other workplace.

This outcome is way downstream, a culmination of many difficult situations that have been badly managed.

As a microcosm of the overall issue, I'd say the judge should have called a halt much earlier on. The ones in authority worsen the situation by having weak boundaries, often as a result of misguided compassion, often as dictated by relentless 'be kind' messaging.

We misunderstand 'kindness' as passive acquiescence, and we misunderstand 'vulnerable' as harmless and we misunderstand 'freedom' as overcoming our own human condition.

Yes. See also destructive empathy. Adults need to step up.

There’s als the possibility that the confounding factor is this woman is a massive dick head.

🤣 no wonder she thought she was a man.

That was really disturbing.... though I do think the judge shouted at the lawyer because she recognised 'him' as female in a way I'm not sure whe would have done if he was male. The lawyer's image of masculinity seems to be one of being tough and confrontational...which then falls apart when actually faced with physically confrontational males...but even then s/he then has to keep going with the performance of defiance and then 'oppression' AKA George Floyd. ( "I can't breathe").

The whole episode was quite traumatic viewing, I felt. The lawyer is trapped within a performance of their own making.

A general thought about actual male puberty compared to going through the puberty of your preferred gender (if this is the correct terminology for injecting testosterone to promote secondary sexual characteristics like facial hair, increased muscle mass ...)

When boys first start puberty they are faced with not only body changes but also mental changes that are part of the effect of testosterone. These changes might include a tendency towards violence, rage, risk taking etc. Mothers, fathers, siblings, friends see these behaviors, react and apply small course corrections. Gradually, over a period of years, the young man taught how to integrate correctly with general society. Men are stronger more prone to violence but this is largely tempered by societal norms that are learned through puberty and adolescence.

Contrast this with someone who decides to inject testosterone later in life. The testosterone has the obvious side effects of promoting secondary sexual characteristics but does it also also bring with it a tendency towards violence and risk taking? If it does, the person injecting the testosterone will have had none of the usual societal corrections that would have normally occurred during puberty.

The point about male puberty also carries over to situations that men observe or are involved in as they grow up. The male lawyer seems to be 'rage baiting' the woman - using language that is intended to further trigger her anger. Men learn about this behavior from an early age in pubs and clubs. They (mostly) learn not to be dragged into pointless arguments.

Not having through actual male puberty may mean that the female lawyer does not have the life experience to step back and recognise that she is being deliberately wound up.

Puberty is not just about the secondary sexual characteristics.

Off topic, but had to go and look up that term, thank you for sharing it. The idea of vicarious trauma experienced from constant exposure to the stress and distress of others becomes very relevant to anyone soaked in Reddit GI forums, it's another and powerful reason to get kids off the internet quick in the case of gender distress.

I was stuck waiting in hospital the other day. With nothing better to do I was reading a Stephen King book, it contained this paragraph

There is a great danger in putting people with similar delusional ideations together. They have a tendency to reinforce each other, which can deepen neurosis into full-blown psychoses. This is well documented.

This is Stephen King not Sigmund Freud but I doubt he pulled it out of his arse. It does ring true. I think King is a be-kinder or, more likely, too chicken to speak up.

I suspect the judge would have slapped down a male lawyer harder and faster with contempt of court - thus avoiding the unnecessary escalation.

This didn’t escalate because of lack of empathy, it escalated because of too much empathy and the lack of a firm ‘no’.

How can it be otherwise if people have no insight into their condition?

I thought the other lawyer was bullying.
He also had a domination pose and was in the raging one’s face.

They ‘went in for the kill’ at the end.

When the two attorneys were in each other's faces I was reminded of the end of Animal Farm

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which"

If the woman wanted her true self to be a fat, sneering bully, she succeeded beyond her wildest dreams.

Those court security officers are ridiculous. Are they not trained to restrain people correctly?

I think everyone in court was out of order in this situation.

That would not have occurred if the judge had slapped down the contempt to begin with. The defence were getting away with contempt of court. The court is not just the judge, it is everyone there. Their defence’s actions were trying to undermine the case in a way that didn’t involve an assessment of evidence. If her client was a male rapist locked in a women’s prison trying to avoid court for whom a delay would mean more women put at risk, would PP be quite so sympathetic to her histrionics?

That was difficult to watch.

Idiotic provocative behaviour- talking over people, raised voice, refusing to follow instructions she got so many warnings…

Interestingly though i think the TIF was ultimately treated like a man. The solicitor faced up to her. When she was perceived as a physical threat they went to restrain her. Im not sure they’d have been quite so handy with a more obvious female if misbehaving in this way. Then again a regular woman not doped on testosterone might have done a Posie Parker and walk out herself while protesting….

Refusing to leave was a stupid thing for this TIF to do while wearing man face. She’s probably never experienced being treated as a male in such a real way - I hope she feels affirmed while cringing

I expect they were worried about hurting her what with her being female and possibly osteoporosis

They will be trained to restrain people who might be carrying a concealed weapon.

@PonyPatter44 Have you ever tried to restrain a toddler who is raging? To strap them into a buggy car seat and ended up sweating?

You're infinitely bigger than them and somehow they exert massive energy to resist.

To restrain someone at this level of anger/distress safely it takes 4 people -which is what they ended up with.

It's a hard watch. Ultimately it seemed like a huge culture clash between small town America court room with the expectation of lawyerly behaviour and someone from 'out of town' with an entirely different set of expectations of how they should be treated - which went awry.

@ArabellaScott I understand what you're saying about treating this individual with sympathy - and that would be true if you were dealing with them in a therapeutic setting. This was not that setting - in this setting this individual was required to behave in a certain manner, to comply with the rules of the court, to do their job as a professional.

They’re constantly right on edge” that’s exactly it. I experienced this myself during an asthma review with a transwoman nurse. for reasons only he knows, he created a really hostile environment, the whole situation quite uncomfortable and a bit unnerving.

Probs because your asthma wasn't sufficiently affirming. Ask for advice about vaginal dryness next time; he'll be over the moon.

100%, I've thought this a lot. Nautral puberty occurs gradually within a social context that expects it. Chempuberty must be like a lorry slamming into someone at the wrong time from the wrong direction by comparison.

I think this is probably true for both sexes, TiM as well as TiF. The TiM may not have the power of testosterone to deal with but they are still having to deal with hormonrs that have big mental and emotional impacts.