TIF Lawyer has meltdown in US courtroom.

[ThatZanyFatball]

This has been making the rounds in the US. Apparently closed her practice the day it happened.

If it had been a biological man, it wouldn't have been posted here at all, though would it. This has been posted here because it's a trans person. Unclear why, this isn't about women's spaces or any other feminist issue, this is a person just doing their job and things have obviously gone badly wrong for reasons none of us can fully know or understand just from one short clip, so it feels very much like an invitation to point, laugh and judge, and some posters definitely have been talking about "schadenfraude" and "consequences".

What a fucking fool.

All the ‘Sir’ and ‘Maam’ in the world fail to hide the pig ignorant behaviour.

This is the Feminism board. Discussing sex and gender issues.

The lawyer is transgender and the comments have been in relation to behaviour and her calls for a female officer when being held by the court officers.

A man wouldn’t insist on a female officer but this woman did because she felt vulnerable when being held down by men.

The judge made the decision to allow the transman lawyer to phone their client. They had just started dialling the number. The prosecuting lawyer then pretty much ordered the judge (who he obviously knew) to change her mind. The situation then escalated. The male lawyer shoved his face aggressively close to the transman's face and made some nasty comments - including telling him to "leave the County". If it was in the UK I think that would be worth a complaint to the Solicitors' Regulation Authority.

This. I find the whole thing distressing to watch and I do think the other attorney was baiting the trans lawyer in a way that could be classed as transphobic, after the judge got up.

But the original situation is super simple:
The judge has made a declaration.
Whether you like it or not, your job as attorney is to respect her legal authority. Instead to go yebbut nobbut and then bleat 'I'm trans' is completely unprofessional. The judge's directions were entirely to do with the issue of the client's presence in court and had nothing whatsoever to do with the attorney being trans. To wheel that out as 'I'm trans and that is why you are not letting me have my way!' shows the attorney is not competent to act professionally in that moment, whatever their gender identity.

Always the kazoo or squeaky dog chew toy voice.

Yes, I'm aware it's the feminism board, that's why I'm questioning the relevance of posting this just because it involves a trans person when there is no issue here specifically related to feminism. This person in not using a same-sex space, they're just having an extremely bad day at work.

I don't think you can state with confidence what a man would or wouldn't do in these circumstances. George Floyd asked for his mother when he was being forcibly restrained.

Oh for the laugh reaction to be back, this made me chuckle

To me she seemed to need to demonstrate her exasperation with the judge - she had already said she had to drive an hour to the courtroom after all (completely missing the point that all the other court officers had also had to commute to the court room)

In the manner of a stroppy teenager, she tossed (not placed, that would require that her hand, the object and the surface to briefly be in contact) the phone onto a surface where it promptly fell off onto the floor.

I guess that some American judges do not react well to being treated with contempt. It does not seem like a good approach from a person who is supposed to be doing their best to represent their client's case in court

I wouldn't have started a thread on this. I agree with you there. I'm, as are you, interested enough to watch the film and comment on it.

It's a change seeing a TiF doing dumb shit. Perhaps it's a hopeful sign that they cope better than their male counterparts.

Yes, agreed, it seemed performative to me as well. She wants to be the next George Floyd. These people put law enforcement and security staff in a really difficult position. I hope people can see through it.

I was going to get a crucifix!

Or maybe it reflects what people tend to share in circles that you spend time in, and how this - plus some good old fashioned confirmation bias - can create a false impression of what kind of behaviour is common or normal among certain groups of people.

Is that a female-to-male transperson? Put up quite some resistance to those police officers if so.

If that had happened 5 years ago the judge would have been sacked by now and the police officers arrested.

It shows how much things have progressed - and one of the key changes was Musk buying Twitter (and then supporting Trump). It resulted in two mass exoduses of TRAs from Twitter, one after Musk bought it and one after Trump won the election.

The result was that there was now no mainstream forum where all the TRAs could congregate and influence politicians, companies, the media etc - which effectively destroyed their activism.

Yes, and that’ll be the testosterone she’s smoking!

'It'? Are you claiming TiF are as bad as some of the men? I'm confident some TiM are absolute gents. I wish they'd speak up to condemn the fetishists that are making all the headlines. By not speaking up it's almost like they don't exist.

Eta reply to @ScaryFaces

I'm claiming you can find some individual examples of bad behaviour among every demographic on earth, and if you spend time in spaces where you are selectively fed examples of a certain demographic behaving badly, this can create or entrench prejudices about how that demographic always/often/usually/regularly/disproportionately behaves.

Up to you whether you think that remark might be applicable to you or others here.

I think the other lawyer was being a goady dick as well. No-one came out of that looking good, imo.

LOL @ at the squealing demands for a female police officer though. You're claiming to be a man, love. Why should a female police officer be rope into your arrest?

Wow she behaved appallingly right from the start of the video - she seemed to have no idea how to behave in court. The judge was very patient with her I couldn't believe it when the judge actually acceded to her request to phone her client. At that point the lawyer should have been exceptionally grateful but in her entitled mind she was still angry that she didn't get her way immediately. The other lawyer is perfectly entitled to object and standing square on to someone aggressive and standing your ground is not intimidating- it is exactly what is needed when someone is trying to use aggression to get their own way. I can't believe the number of people on this thread who believe it is the job of the court staff to deescalate situations caused by nut jobs like this. If you can't behave appropriately in court then you know exactly what is going to happen to you - that you will be arrested and thrown into a cell for being in contempt of court. And if you resist arrest, well the officers are going to have to use force. The entire problem is caused by this women's sense of entitlement and belief that the rule of law doesn't apply to her.

Idk about in the UK but in the US judges are literally kings of their courtrooms and plenty of judges act the way she did and for good reason - bc they often have to exert authority over people who may have an outburst. The judge gave her MULTIPLE warnings to calm herself down and she refused and insisted on remaining combative. Regarding the prosecutor - Did he take advantage of a situation that was clearly escalating and tip the opposing lawyer into behaving in a way that benefitted his position? Perhaps, but that's what a good lawyer does. Lawyers challenge each other, they are confrontational and accusatory of each other, but that's literally part of the job.

The TIF was provided multiple warnings and opportunities to calm down and behave professionally but she instead behaved as if she was determined to bring about that outcome. Frankly I think the judge waited too long and tolerated too much before holding her in contempt and the prosecutor - hell if I ever needed a lawyer I'd hire him in a heartbeat he acted as a good lawyer should. Not the judge, prosecution, or anyone else's responsibility to deal with a temper tantrum from an adult defense attorney.

I'm lovely. Ask anyone 😃 I don't understand why you want to make this personal.

I agree with what you say. If there were GC women demonstrating at trans events; spray painting the venues, breaking the windows, releasing crickets, drowning out the speakers, leaving bottles of piss around the places, etc., etc., etc. Like at the recent concert. Iirc correctly a few GC women popped along, boosted the attendance and the tickets sales and...that was it. I didn't go but I was a bit rude about Adam Lambert's shoes. Anyway, I'd condemn any behaviour from gender critical women that remotely resembled the nonsense that is habitually exhibited by ta. The closest we see of condemnation by allies is mealy mouthed 'bothsides', which we both know is untrue. Some can't even call a rapist a man.

If the best way you can find to defend the perverts and fetishists that make the headlines and are over represented in the prisons is to throw your argument open to encompass the entire world then it's not much of an argument.

What a shit show.
The Judge didn't know WTF she was doing ping ponging back & forth. I got the feeling she was in a state of high anxiety when she should have been running the show.
The other lawyer was a goady bastard facing off 'You need to leave this county' - wtf?
The security guys - fair play to the poster who gave some clarity that guns are an issue which means restraint needs to be swift - but jesus, once she was secured they just kept going.
And ultimately the 'trans lawyer' who started it all was a complete arsehole who needs to learn to grow up, STFU and walk away for their own benefit.

Awful to watch. A catalogue of bad behaviour from all participants.

I wasn't keen on the judge finger-pointing, but - if the case couldn't proceed because paperwork had not been completed and/or the defendant had not turned up, the response should have been an apology and an urgent request for a later session if those things could be sorted. Without agreement on that it's a shrug shoulders and leave situation.

Yes, exasperating, but not the fault of the judge.

And if the defence lawyer was so foolish as to get petulant with the judge and refuse to leave when asked, and was then told handcuffs were going to be used (to ensure everyone's safety), the way to de-escalate that was to put her hands behind her back until a legal solution could be found.

I just found the whole thing bizarre. It was like a weird comedy sketch. With bad acting.