TIF Lawyer has meltdown in US courtroom.

[ThatZanyFatball]

This has been making the rounds in the US. Apparently closed her practice the day it happened.

Honestly, I think the main driver for the TIF's behaviour is probably autism. Thinking "if I can just say it right then everyone will agree" and failing to recognise that you are winding people up and it's gone past you being right to you need to back down, followed by the utter shock, incredulity and lashing out at being treated "unfairly".

But if she'd gone to law school, presumably someone explained the processes of the law to her.

She reminded me of a non-autistic manipulative bully I worked with who also turned nasty if thwarted, and pretended she thought universal rules didn't apply to her.

That was horrible to watch. I wonder if she had been affected by too much testosterone?

She was belligerent, loud, and very annoying but I did seem to get a sense that the judge, and then that other man, were very ready to dismiss her without listening. I also did seem to hear real wheezing when the police were manhandling her. Perhaps she was having an asthma attack.

I did not realise she brought up that she was trans.

Almost half of Americans believe in demons and that they walk among us. As a PP upthread remarked, a deep-throated growl/scream is said to be demonic. Yes, they're all bonkers but the YT commenters weren't calling the crazed lawyer a demon as a personal insult. They probably think she's possessed.

I’m not sure you’ve made the point you meant to make by reminding us that several prominent and recognisable GC figures attended an event with 7000 odd trans people and allies present and… no one bothered them. Surely that flies in the face of your examples intended to suggest this is an aggressive and confrontational demographic rather than one that would overwhelmingly rather just get on with enjoying their evening in peace? Also unclear why said prominent and recognisable GC figures would be so happy to attend - and call attention to their attendance - if they really find "TRAs" so frightening. Although I suspect Forstater at least was disappointed not to be confronted, she was clearly hoping to get to steal a nice juicy "feminists attacked by TRAs" headline, how disappointing for her that instead she ended up donating to a cause she doesn't agree with in order to sit through a concert she didn't enjoy. Rather sad way to spend your time, but there you go.

Some women sat quietly in the dark and weren't attacked, and you think that's a win for trans activists when it's the least that should be expected! If you think that's a win it just shows how low your expectations are.

Horrible to watch and must have been thoroughly distressing for everyone involved. The other lawyer is being a goady bastard but it looks like this is the end of a whole lot of arguing/interrupting/wangling, the judge is clearly at the end of her patience, and the TiF's significant issues are obvious. It looks heavy handed and badly handled, I'd think mostly the UK police would manage that better, still would have been panic and much drama 'I can't breathe' (except for the great big deep breaths being used to scream and scream), but at least someone would have been making calming noises back. But then court security and judges aren't really trained or meant for therapeutic de escalation and co regulation of their lawyers during a court case.

Uncomfortable watch- goading by the other lawyer who really was in the transman's face.
The judge doesn't appear to have been very helpful. I thought she'd bang her gavel for quiet?
Awful all round

Bloody hell. It feels as though we've gone back in time to the 1600s.

The TiF lawyer should have backed off the moment the Judge told her to.

The escalation was entirely down to the unhinged , toddler type tantrum the TiF lawyer had.

Screaming at the top of their lungs
I CANNOT BREATHE!

And demanding a female office...?!?!

Wtaf?

This person is clearly mentally unwell. The court officers were heavy handed but honestly she didnt help herself.

The judge was very fair and gave her SO many warnings!!!

If you can yell 'I can't breathe' then ... you can breathe.

Watching other humans is so weird sometimes, like. =-=; I feel so much second-hand embarrassment.

I honestly feel bad for the other people in the video who had themselves exposed online and are now getting criticized after interacting with this chaotic, emotionally out of control person.

The judge made the decision to allow the transman lawyer to phone their client. They had just started dialling the number. The prosecuting lawyer then pretty much ordered the judge (who he obviously knew) to change her mind.

The prosecuting lawyer was not ordering the judge, he was raising a point of order on behalf of his client as he should do if the judge does something that goes against protocol.

There seems a crazy number of pp on here who think everyone in court should be placating a defence lawyer - why? We do not know what the case was but placating the defence may result in a victim not getting justice. The judge should have had her escorted out for contempt a lot sooner. Of course the prosecutor will want to rile the defense - that is how you get them to reveal damning evidence. And vice versa.

I thought they were very gutsy to attend.

👏

Its disappointing to see all the misogyny on the comments on the original video.

The other lawyer was being a goady dick. He could have just raised an objection and left it., but I wonder if this is the 3rd hearing that the client hasn't turned up to then maybe he let his inner thoughts win out this time. I can imagine dealing with the self-righteous attorney was infuriating.

I think the judge needs a break. She was clearly terrified by the attorney shouting and she should be above that if she is a judge. I have seen plenty of female judges dealing with worse beviour swiftly. She should have done Contempt of court the second that the lawyer through their phone on the desk.

Even though the lawyer was identifying with the behaviour of a toddler, they are in fact a grown up with a responsibility to the client and the general public. Hopefully they will see this video and realise that they were - in fact- an issue all along.

Obviously the transman behaved terribly. But do you think it's okay for the prosecuting lawyer to shove his face into the other lawyer's face and tell them in a threatening tone "You should leave the County."? I can't make out what he said next, but it sounded similarly threatening.

I don't quite think this is the slam dunk you think it. Lets break it down in the way AI does.

1. Icecakesforelam points out the different styles of attack between TRA's and GC. TRA's have in the past spray painted, damaged propety, urinated in public, exposed their penis' while where dresses covered in water/urine. In addition they have demonised a woman for saying she doesn't want males in female single-sex spaces to the point where this person has been recieving threats of violence on a daily basis.
2. You response is that a few GC sitting in dark in an event of 7000 people and then tweeting about is the equivalent of this violence. You also projected a situation which you have no doubt fantasised about regarding a confrontation between a GC and TRA.

Can you see the difference in the level of threat, and why that reinforces the need for females to have access to single-sex spaces. When men are rejected/told no by women they behaviour aggressively and violently in a way that women cannot defend themselves against. The equivelent response from women is to sit quietly in the dark and not be noticed.

I think that he says 'These people are my friends and you are being ugly'
Might be a small town American court where lawyers, judges and other staff all know each other well. Perhaps the TG lawyer is from farther afield, hence the 'I had to travel an hour and a half to get here' and 'You need to leave this county' comments

Agreed. And to be fair the state attorney was threatening and telling them to get out of the area. The behaviour was incredibly unprofessional all round and whilst I believe in safe spaces for women or I wouldn’t be on this board the gloating is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Yes, that's what I heard, too. I'm not sure we'd see such obvious belligerence between solicitors in a UK magistrate's court but that doesn't mean it was wrong in this American court. The US legal system's notoriously more aggressively adversarial. The prosecutor wasn't "up in the face" of the defence lawyer, he maintained an arm's length.

And the fact remains that none of this would've happened if she'd behaved with respect for the court. She was already in contempt (and then some) before the performative face-off and her escalating histrionics.

The women in the frame background were remarkably composed! Between kids at home and adults kicking off in the courtroom, I guess they've built up experience.

That falls somewhere between fuck around and find out, play stupid games and win stupid prizes, and a poorly managed situation all round.

Slamming your phone down and arguing with the judge is just bloody stupid and arrogant, so the ultimate fault rests with the transman, but you do have to wonder about underlying issues.

I felt sorry for the steno, who gave up and/or had her job given up part-way through by the judge. Won't people please think of the stenos!

God this is horrific to watch. This poor woman has created a terrible situation. The guards had absolutely no need to manhandle her like that, and I wonder how they would have approached had they known she is female? I hope.she gets help.