Girlguiding - So HTF did you know what was going on then ?

[SerendipityJane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2rn250ddjo

It is not clear how many people will be directly affected by the rule change, as the organisation says it does not collect data on gender identity.

Here is a current thread with lots of background and discussion.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5458642-latest-girlguiding-email-this-evening

The claim not to collect data feels like it has the potential to be used as an excuse to allow these boys to remain in GG, because how do they tell them to leave if they don’t actually know they are boys?

They might ask all members to sign a form in September confirming that they are female ("at birth") like the WI is doing in April

When they say that the don't collect stats on gender identity, what's the betting that what they actually mean is that they haven't collected data on sex? In other words, that they either asked a question that conflated sex with GI, or simply deemed that individuals were girls just in virtue of applying to join the girl guides.

Birth certificates are needed for the kids - they can't change them.

The adults are bloody obvious.

Quite.

if they don't collect the data, how do they know there are any boys affected, at all? How do they even know it's an issue?

I would find that kinda odd as a parent, if a social group demanded to see a birth certificate to register my kid.

Well if it's single sex then you can find it odd and either decide to suck it up for a legitimate reason or you could decide your daughter won't join.

Simple.

Really? Considering the potential of away stays, I would say it should be standard.

It’s not unusual to confirm age especially when there are age restrictions to membership or for liability purposes for certain activities.

"How will this policy work in practice? Will volunteers be expected to carry out additional checks or ask for proof?
Girlguiding has already let all parents and carers know about what this change means for current young members. We are not asking volunteers to carry out any additional checks or ask questions. We have centrally updated our new joiner process to make it clear that Girlguiding young membership is open to girls and that for the purposes of membership and in line with the Equality Act 2010 this means those whose sex at birth is female. Volunteers will not need to ask questions or carry out any checks.

Will action be taken against volunteers who ignore this change and refuse to leave?
We trust Girlguiding volunteers. Girlguiding has a code of conduct that must be met by all members and volunteers. If someone chooses to stay in a role which they know they are no longer eligible for, then this would be reviewed and investigated as part of our normal complaints procedure.

How should volunteers check that trans girls have left?
We are not asking volunteers to carry out any additional checks. Girlguiding is committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect. We are communicating openly with parents and carers and have made it clear that trans girls can stay at Girlguiding until 6 September."

https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/updates-for-our-members/equality-diversity-support/

My record just says "Gender: Woman"

I have often wondered what the scale of the issue actually is. In school, there are more "transboys" than "transgirls", so females using male identities is more common, but still less than 1% of each group. The proportion of transgirls who would want to sign up to a female "single gender" organisation compared to mixed sex options like Scouting is probably also quite low. I suspect that HQ are inflating the impact on the numbers in the organisation, and also it's a vocal minority.

It's right that Guiding have had to revert back to a clear single sex policy for safeguarding, and their lack of transparancy in recent years has been a dreadful policy.

Maybe because I've only been to small local things, but mine just ask the parents and trust their answers.

I agree. I’ve never been asked for this and don’t feel this is a positive step. They’ve got themselves into a guddle but I don’t believe asking for birth certs going forward is a good move.

They are not going to but would be interested to know why you think it wouldn’t be a positive step?

GG as an organisation probably don't know how many boys have joined, but individual groups will know if they have boys attending. Would parents of these boys really want to cause a scene by continuing to send their sons?

My suspicion is 'trans boys' was and is a bit of a smoke screen for men wanting to be girl guide leaders.

Well it would’ve been weird until about five minutes ago. But then somebody made up a problem, bien-pensant opinion went along with it, and now here we are.

Didn't you have to provide ID when your child started school?
Edited to add, and anyone joining the housing register at a local authority, for example, has to provide ID for children who are included as well as parents, so it's usual these days to provide ID for all sorts of things.

My suspicion is 'trans boys' was and is a bit of a smoke screen for men wanting to be girl guide leaders.

This with brass knobs on!!!

It wouldn't surprise me if one of the governing body or leadership group of Girl Guides has a cross dressing husband and/or a trans identifying son ( the same with the WI). I cannot imagine what else might possibly have caused those responsible to get embroiled in this ludicrous situation.

That's known as a conflict of interests and putting personal interest ahead of the charitable aims.

Will action be taken against volunteers who ignore this change and refuse to leave?
We trust Girlguiding volunteers...

Blindly trusting volunteers isn't the best safeguarding practice out there, is it? On any front.

It’s not weird to provide ID to join an organisation. If you’re responsible for safeguarding children, it’s a very good idea to confirm who they are, and as PP have said, ages are relevant too. If a child joins a sports club, for example, they have to prove their age, so it’s not a big ask for the guides.

It’s a really stupid statement to make. We trust volunteers so we won’t bother with DBS checks anymore. We trust volunteers so we will get rid of all policies relating to your vision ratios …..

Much better to have said “we expect our volunteers to comply with the policies of the organisation…”

Some activist eejit at HQ probably thinks they have done something clever here.