Girlguiding - So HTF did you know what was going on then ?

[SerendipityJane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2rn250ddjo

It is not clear how many people will be directly affected by the rule change, as the organisation says it does not collect data on gender identity.

Well, this makes sense!

I see the BBC article linked to in the OP is still saying that
Transgender members of Girlguiding have until 6 September,
they haven't corrected it to say that it's only male transgender members of GG, trans IDing girls and women are still eligible.

Can boys join? I mean boys who were born female.

You mean girls?

And, quite honestly, why do you care if a 10 year old transgender girl wants to join the girl guides?

I mean boys. But boys who were born female. Those who present as boys.

They originally tried to kick girls who identified as boys out but they soon realised it was laughable to kick out a biological girl from Girl guiding so they back tracked on that. Transgirls will have to give up their membership but transwomen will still be able to do certain 'backstage ' roles that men have been allowed to do for years. Many husbands over the years have assisted with accountancy roles or helping to transport girls to events as the minibus driver. That has always been allowed so long as there are female leaders present too. If transwomen wish to transfer to such roles there is nothing to stop them. I hope that the Scouts will be willing to welcome any transgirls who might want to join their organisation.

Yes. They were called tomboys whrn I was young and they were often the most enthusiastic pyromaniacs at camps. I havevto admit we lost a lot of such girls to Scouts when they went coed.

What do you mean by a transgender girl? A child that was born male and claims to have a female gender identity, or a child that was born female and claims to have a male gender identity?

The Guides were set up to be a single-sex dedicated space for girls and young women to do activities with their peers. The aim is to build confidence and allow girls to reach their potential away from the judgement and pressure they can feel in a mixed-sex environment, which is a perfectly legitimate aim. All girls should be welcome, including “trans boys” whose biological sex is female. Allowing biological males in goes against the raison d’être of the organisation and, fortunately, the ruling of the Supreme Court has made the Guides go back to their founding principle.

Girls. Children who are female are called girls.

Girl guides was set up in response to girls not wanting to be restricted to sexist gendered stereotypes but rather doing the things boys got to do.

You mean girls. A child who was born female is a girl.

You sound confused in all honesty.

I find it far more odd that some parents seem to think what makes their kid a boy or a girl is personality rather than body - how sexist is that?

If showing a birth certificate protects girls (and boys) from stupid sexist ideas like that then personally I'm all for it.

Sadly in this matter, parents lie. Or at least, sexist parents define their child according to their personal sexist projections rather than the child's actual
sex and do not disclose this despite knowing other parents may not share those sexist beliefs about boy and girl personalities mattering more than basic body sex.

Nah they're just trying a performative gotcha

If you don't think it's possible or meaningful to differentiate between boys and girls, why on earth are you volunteering for an organisation literally founded on the assumption that "girls only" is meaningful? Why not volunteer for an actual mixed sex organisation instead instead of this weird dance of "some kids are definitely girls and some are definitely boys so of course we need to have girls-only things but when it comes to who is a boy and who is a girl we can't tell who is who or what the difference is or explain why stuff has to be girls-only"

It makes no sense. If you genuinely don't think there's a difference why bother with girls-only in the first place? I'd love to hear an answer that isn't just based on sexist stereotypes about what "girls" like to do.

All the adults will have DBS checks so identify , passports etc are all checked

Firstly because guiding is for girls only and secondly that 10 year old boy will soon become a 15 year old boy.

They can (females of any gender identity or none).

Do you think they shouldn’t be allowed?

A girl who identifies as a boy? Fine.

A boy who identifies as a girl? Not fine.

I care

1. because the only way you can say a boy "is" actually a girl is by reducing "boy" and "girl" to sexist ideas about what boys and girls enjoy or how they think. Organisations shouldn't be condoning that type of sexism.
2. because in making the word "girl" or "boy" mean some sort of personality group, we lose the language girls and boys need to understand what they experience because of their bodies and how that relates to the experiences of others of their sex, and we lose the ability to have single sex conversations and supports. I think that is a loss especially for girls.

I have no issue whatsoever with mixed sex social groups that are for those who enjoy, for want of a better phrase, "the girlier things in life". I just don't think it should be a group that is labelled "girls only" but makes the criteria for being a girl the very sexist "likes girly stuff".

I'm sure both of the affected children will be very upset

How does a girl (in the original sex-based meaning of the word) "present" as a boy? Is it that she adopts stereotypical (ie sexist) tropes of boyhood? And if so, why is it a good thing to make these sexist ideas the literal definition of boys and girls instead of saying your body is what makes you a boy or a girl, and your personality is free to be whatever it wants?

I’ve never had to show ID for
my kids in any activity including football

Want to join? No issue. Many people want things that, for one reason or another, they can’t have.

Why do you care?

Just to advise you all, Zoe Williams in the Guardian ( where else?), is bleating about how unfair it is that trans identifying boys are no longer welcome. And it could all have been solved if the Girl Guides had changed the name to something more inclusive. I'm having a face palm moment here. I really don't understand why they are like this and why they don't understand what it's all about. Could one of you please explain it to to her, before I blow a gasket? 😱