Men who say they are women

[Shedmistress]

Men who say they are women and then also say 'I don't like men in women's spaces'.

They totally understand that the men that are in women's spaces, are them, right?

They must know that.

We know they know that.

They know that we know they know that.

They know full well that the reason 'nobody has ever challenged me' is because women don't want a punch in the face. Or to face years of a tribunal because the man who says he is a woman went crying to the manager.

They say they are victims of the patricarchy, but they ARE the patriarchy. They know this. Because they are men.

This whole 'needing to use female spaces' comes from the doctors who would only sign off on a surgery if the men had duped people into allowing them to use female spaces, and to which we refer back to the above points of nobody wanting to challenge them. Not because of the potential for male violence, just for the exploitation of females who don't want to be punched.

I find it fascinating, i really do, the delusion to which we are all supposed to dance around and the deletions when women just say no. Or when women refer to their own situations having come across these men and the inferences that 'we've never met one, so how would we even tell'. For me it is the personal experiences that made me as hard line as I am.

You were born a man and you’re still a man, but now also an entitled man appropriating what’s not yours.

Crikey that genocide has been going on for a long time!

"Woman" is not an identity or a costume.

Born male, you're a man.

I assume for two reasons .

Because he thinks he has successfully altered his appearance enough that he looks more like a woman than a man, and that he will attract more attention in the men's toilets. I don't mean aggression, but just "wrong toilets" comments. He may be right or wrong about this.

Because as I've said, he actually believes he has a female brain, and to him brain sex trumps body sex. Therefore he believes he is a woman, and has as much right as I do to use the women's toilets, and no right to use the men's.

Well he needs help then. And by help I don’t mean medical professionals telling him it’s fine for him to use women’s spaces 🙄

Firstly, the men's toilets aren't wrong, you said he just goes in and out quickly, head down. He seems to put more weight on a male reaction, not considering a female one.
Secondly - the female brain really doesn't exist. I'm sorry that your friend is having these problems, but really needs to see a psychiatrist because people with body dysphoria can be helped.
Finally, you say that you are a Christian. Would you turn up to a Mosque or a Synagogue and join in a service there, or would you respect the right of these communities to worship in safe spaces?

Yes, and it's not "women asking for this" - it's the law!

Just follow laws people!

"It's so unfair, there's people asking me not to drive through red lights - do they have no empathy - I'm a person that needs to get places quickly!"

Is it a delusion though, or just lying and coercion with reflex dose of DARVO as required?

Nobody can be 'born male but I'm still a woman'.

Your very conception determined you are male, and nothing can change that. You have male chromosomes. You are male. Whatever is going on in your head, whatever you feel, you are male and always will be.

But you know that.

Has it? I'm not sure, so genuine question! Prior to all this trans stuff there was a social contract that men should not use the women's and vice versa, but is it actually written into law?
The supreme court has clarified that the EA has always stated that service providers must ensure that people use toilets according to their sex, but that obligation is in the provider not the service user.
Is there a specific law (in Scotland) which could be used to prosecute a man who was using a female toilet without committing any additional offences (threatening behaviour, voyeuristic behaviour etc)?

I agree it is entitlement, because he considers his own requirements to be more important than other people's. But I don't think he is doing it deliberately, because he really believes he is a woman. If someone suggested I (an actual woman) should not use the women's because there was something about me which terrified other women, I would still use the toilets when I absolutely had to because I have nowhere else to go. That is how my friend (incorrectly) sees it. That is his genuine belief. He believes he has a female brain, and now he's had surgery he no longer has male reproductive organs, so to him the only male bit about him is his chromosomes, and he thinks his female brain trumps these. He is woefully confused, but not actually displaying entitlement in the usual way, because he doesn't realise he is a man. As I said, he is almost certainly autistic and has had mental health issues in the past too. I think it's reasonable to think he may be unable to see this as clearly as you and I can.

I think as the umbrella has grown, so has the rationale used. And it's contradictory.

How do they believe they are women because they have been through x, yet are happy to let other men, who haven't, say they are trans too?

They accept women as women, themselves as women, and the man who cross dresses when he remembers.

That's not a deep belief that they are a woman, that's an belief that woman is anything a man wants it to be. And something any man can be.

If their transness, or their identity as women meant something to them, they would have a fixed rationale and process. They would be gatekeepping what it is to be a women.

now he's had surgery he no longer has male reproductive organs
he is almost certainly autistic and has had mental health issues in the past too

General question, how and why is this serious surgery allowed to be carried out on people with mental health issues?
Is there no assessment?

Yes it's the law. If facilities are marked male/female, that refers to biological sex.

And his own delusions aren't anyone else's problem. If I genuinely believed I was doing 60 mph when I was actually doing 90, that wouldn't exonerate me in any way.

Thanks for your insights by the way, @Kirridge

Which law? I'm not being arsey, I just genuinely don't know which Scottish law specifically says that it is illegal for a man to enter and use a women's toilet.

You have already admitted on another thread that you are fully aware that you are male and not female.

So, no .... not a woman like her.

The only way that you can make any argument is to falsely force the redefinition of the word 'woman' to mean the opposite to its intended meaning while still meaning 'female people' as well.

The irony of that decision by male people, is that there is actually then no word that is unique to female people and you (general you) have just claimed to be something that any other male person can also claim to be. By making the word meaningless, you have made the word a substitute for the term 'adult human'.

Have you ever considered the effect of that decision by a group of male people?

I think you're just being obtuse now. The recent clarification by the SC on how the Equality Act should be applied.

Thank you for that!

The EA is very clear, and I agree it says that service providers must make sure men do not use women's toilets. But it doesn't say that individual members of the public must use the correct toilets does it?
If an ordinary man (not a trans one) walked into a women's toilet in front of a police officer, which specific law would they arrest him under?

Complying with the law is not just about 'can I be arrested'? 🙄

What kind of arsehole is deliberately flouting what service providers are supposed to ensure and what's necessary for women's safety and dignity?

These kind of laws need people to grow the hell up and do what's expected of them. He absolutely knows he's doing wrong and he couldn't care less.

Indeed it has.

Several things fell into place for me when I saw that word being used and the threat message to women who reject those men in that latter.

And then I saw the video from 1973. And then I saw the Alexandra Billings video.

It all fits together.

Men have continues a message of aggression, threat and emotional manipulation for decades. It is no wonder that it has reached a crescendo now in the mainstream.

And then you look at the incel, transmax/looksmax culture and even more clicks into place. It really is misogyny but they tried to rebadge it.

I dont believe for a minute that any trans identifying man thought that the SC didn't include him because his brain is female.

But it doesn't say that individual members of the public must use the correct toilets does it?

That's from Reddit, isn't it? They are trying to convince themselves that they can use women's toilets unless their employer or the service provider tells them otherwise.

They know they aren't women, they know they shouldn't be using women's spaces, and are hoping people are too afraid to challenge them.

See, here is how it works.

"just a woman like you" as a phrase used by a male person then also makes a female person saying to you, personally, that they are 'just a man like you' as true as your phrase.

just a woman like you = just a man like you => woman / man is rendered meaningless because the original meaning is contradicted with someone's imposed meaning where any male person can claim to be a woman and vice versa.

If both male people AND female people use the term 'woman' to describe themselves it has no meaning outside of 'adult human'.

just a woman like you = just a man like you = women and man are now just generic words for 'adult human'.

He can think it all he wants, doesn’t make it so. He is, as you correctly note, delusional. I’d say ill, and in need of help.

I don't know about Scotland but in England & Wales a man entering the Ladies could be arrested under one of the catch all public order offences like "Behaviour likely to occasion a breach of the peace". Then there are sexual offences like voyeurism & indecent exposure if his behaviour warrents.