Men who say they are women

[Shedmistress]

Men who say they are women and then also say 'I don't like men in women's spaces'.

They totally understand that the men that are in women's spaces, are them, right?

They must know that.

We know they know that.

They know that we know they know that.

They know full well that the reason 'nobody has ever challenged me' is because women don't want a punch in the face. Or to face years of a tribunal because the man who says he is a woman went crying to the manager.

They say they are victims of the patricarchy, but they ARE the patriarchy. They know this. Because they are men.

This whole 'needing to use female spaces' comes from the doctors who would only sign off on a surgery if the men had duped people into allowing them to use female spaces, and to which we refer back to the above points of nobody wanting to challenge them. Not because of the potential for male violence, just for the exploitation of females who don't want to be punched.

I find it fascinating, i really do, the delusion to which we are all supposed to dance around and the deletions when women just say no. Or when women refer to their own situations having come across these men and the inferences that 'we've never met one, so how would we even tell'. For me it is the personal experiences that made me as hard line as I am.

I'm sorry you experienced this too. Unfortunately my friend first spoke to doctors about it a few years before being trans became fashionable, and at that time the doctors just told him to dress in women's clothes and use female pronouns/toilets etc etc, and then they'd do the operation a year (or two? I can't remember) later. There was no questioning of gender dysphoria itself, just blind acceptance.

In terms of challenging him, I have never done so, but neither have I ever said anything which condones or supports his choice, except to use his new name. He definitely knows I don't agree with it. I am a Christian, which he thinks is illogical, but he doesn't openly criticise my choices (though I wouldn't care if he did). I extend him the same courtesy.

The only trans woman I have known quite well would not have punched anyone. But was a deeply, deeply disturbed and troubled human who I would not want in an intimate Womans only space

Oh for goodness sake.
Men have said - even on this very board! - that there is no issue with TW in their loos. Men avoid eye contact, piss and leave. Some even wash their hands!

If TW are willing to assert their right to be in a woman's loo, why won't they assert their right to be in a men's loo?
I think I know the answer to that.

Does he though? Will he refuse a prostrate exam or test if he needs one?

You don't know that.

It is like saying to women that they can possibly know whether their male partners will punch them or not. We don't know, that is the whole point. Violent men or potentially violent men don't have it tattoed onto their foreheads.

Well I have no idea! But as I said, he believes he has a male body, but a female brain. And he chooses to place more importance on his supposed brain sex. So he wouldn't deny he has a prostate (I assume he still does, post op) but he doesn't think "body sex" is as important as brain sex. I don't think he would have invented this idea if there weren't studies out there claiming (falsely) to prove that brain sex can somehow be different to body sex. He has just latched on to something that he feels explains who he is.

Yes. And from 1977!

When I saw that letter the first time I realised that the pattern of behaviour has been modelled for decades and is ingrained. This letter was from an academic too, a man of some influence.

Yep.

I don’t believe this group thought through the optics of this image and just how misogynist it is.

A man who doesn't want to stand out wouldn't try to pretend to be a woman in public. Cross dressing, trying to speak in a woman's voice, going into womens spaces are the most attention seeking thing a man could do.

People can be quiet but still want to be noticed, be controlling and push boundaries.

Trans is a sanctioned way to do all of these things.

I can see why family and close friends don't want to dig too deeply, though.

"We've always been here"

Yes. We know.

Don’t let’s forget the Victorian Government ad shaming women who feel unsafe when alone with a man in a lift …

www.vic.gov.au/theunsaid

The law has been clarified that he shouldn't be using women's spaces.

There is no excuse for him doing this. It's just more male entitlement and thinking he can trample over women's rights. Terrible behaviour, however you cut it.

They won't be on this thread because it would be admitting they know they are men who say they are women. I worded it that way on purpose.

Look I have been really down in the detail on this for the last 18 months. My legal case about single sex changing spaces etc has meant I have looked a huge amount into Reddit, Trans blogs, other legal cases, personal statements etc.

You have to understand this very central pillar. In fact it is THE central pillar.

Put aside what you think, what you know, put aside your opinions and knowledge of science, of everything.

They actually believe that when someone says they are transgender, they are, and have always been, the other sex.

It's not a blag, it's not double think in order to get access to female spaces. It's really, truly, all the way to the core, what they think is as factual as the sky is blue.

Once you understand this - their behaviour and statements suddenly makes sense - as in if you thought those things, you would act the same as well.

They think they are on the right side of history. They truly think we are nazis and bigots.

Of course they are factually and demonstrably wrong. But this belief is so utterly core to their existence that it's very difficult to show them contrary evidence, and when you do they often resort to violence because they cannot deal with the cognitive dissonance of what they truly core believe and facts in front of them.

It is a core psychological phenomena.

Oh yes! You're sharper than me at 8.30 in the morning 😄

It’s mad that doctor’s have told these men to use women’s facilities as some sort of ‘practice run’ or ‘try before you buy’. No consideration for anyone else. However, I guess the whole thing is based on putting aside everything we know about the differences between the sexes (from physical strength to propensity for violence) and pretending it doesn’t matter.

Genuine question, why can't he use the men's toilet to do this?.

I remember reading about a doctor in the 1970s who told a man that 'of course he must use a female toilet know because he was 'a woman' as if it was the most logical and normal thing to do.

A male doctor, of course. Telling another male to use a female toilet to make that man feel better about his decisions.

@Kirridge your friend has body dysphoria, and needs support. There is nothing wrong with being a man who is gentle and shy, and not into traditional masculine pursuits. I feel sorry for people who don't fit into gender characteristics created by society. They will always feel like outsiders. I hope he gets constructive help.

I am now at the stage where I want to tell any male person attempting to emotionally manipulate his way into female acceptance that they simply have to take responsibility for their own decisions. That there is no biological marker that indicates 'gender identity' and that no female person has to support their decisions in any way.

Last night I saw 'empathy' being mentioned. Well, no one should also be expecting a group of people to put themselves at risk to extend 'empathy' to them for their personal decisions and beliefs. Sure, some female people may have empathy but those female people should not be making decisions that allow other female people to be exposed to harm due to their decisions either.

Empathy traps are called that for a reason.

Well, no one should also be expecting a group of people to put themselves at risk to extend 'empathy' to them for their personal decisions and beliefs
Aren’t you asking this of transsexual women? You want us to put ourselves at risk because of your gender critical beliefs

Yep. I asked Blanchard once, on Twitter, whether it ever once occurred to him to ask women how they felt about men in their facilities.

He didn't answer.

We're asking you to stay out of facilities you're not entitled to be in.

What risk are you putting yourselves at?
Do you have actual statistics or evidence of that risk?

What empathy requirements are there from male people for them to stay out of female single sex provisions, particularly if they are detailed in the law and in policy?

Please tell us what risks you face using male single sex provisions or finding alternative solutions based on your own decision to change your body?

Because there are also male people who have made the same body modifications using male provisions or alternative solutions without any harm to them at all. So what is the evidence supporting your demand to access female single sex provisions?