Men who say they are women

[Shedmistress]

Men who say they are women and then also say 'I don't like men in women's spaces'.

They totally understand that the men that are in women's spaces, are them, right?

They must know that.

We know they know that.

They know that we know they know that.

They know full well that the reason 'nobody has ever challenged me' is because women don't want a punch in the face. Or to face years of a tribunal because the man who says he is a woman went crying to the manager.

They say they are victims of the patricarchy, but they ARE the patriarchy. They know this. Because they are men.

This whole 'needing to use female spaces' comes from the doctors who would only sign off on a surgery if the men had duped people into allowing them to use female spaces, and to which we refer back to the above points of nobody wanting to challenge them. Not because of the potential for male violence, just for the exploitation of females who don't want to be punched.

I find it fascinating, i really do, the delusion to which we are all supposed to dance around and the deletions when women just say no. Or when women refer to their own situations having come across these men and the inferences that 'we've never met one, so how would we even tell'. For me it is the personal experiences that made me as hard line as I am.

Only one comment before they were turned off that had over 3k likes versus the original posts 400.

This is coercive marketing.

🤣🤣🤣

Ugh this is gross. Awful, manipulative misogyny.

Not that I think there actually are issues with TW in men's toilets, but even if that's the case, they want to foist problems created by male violence against males on to women? As if we exist only to serve men?

Disgusting messaging.

So why do you think women should be made responsible for dealing with male violence against other males, on male spaces?

Apparently coercively trying to persuade women to suck up their privacy, dignity and safety and not complain at the law being broken is funny.

This response shows all the points up on this thread about the total and utter contempt for women and how the world should revolve around men claiming to be women up in a nice neat nutshell.

Bravo.

Can I just ask, how? What makes you believe you are a woman?

If you find it easy to say to women in women's loos "I am entitled to be here" why can't you say to men in men's loos "I am entitled to be here"?

What's stopping you from standing up for yourself to other men?

That's obvious.

He does.

1. Women are responsible for what men do.

2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

3. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

5. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

7. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.

8. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

9. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.

10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.

12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

16. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

I think I've counted examples of twelve in the last 24 hours...

Oh, don't ask. Please don't ask. He'll be here until Trump's fifth term bleating on about all manner of inane, narcissistic foolishness.

I would suggest looking at the offence of Public Nuisance under the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022.

If, having been informed he was in the wrong toilet, he refused to leave, that would probably compound the offence.

You're right about the law. I remember hearing Naomi C or Michael F (I think) explaining how it would be tricky to prosecute an individual using the current laws available.

We could do with a law like the one for being drunk while sitting in the driver's seat of a car. Even if the car is stationary and the keys not in ignition, you can still be convicted of drunk while in charge of a motor vehicle.

Genevieve Gluck (of Reduxx fame) has a theory that a lot of these men insert themselves into women's conversations in this manner because they're using GC women as unwitting (and free) femdoms - these men enjoy being humiliated by women.

My own theory is that they are bloody minded sexists who can't bear to see women enjoying anything for ourselves. They want to try and control, and if they can't control then they try to ruin, everything women have.

Ironically, FWR acts as a safe space for these men.

They get to say what they like to women to a certain extent. They can sail close to the line but as long as they don't actually cross it (e.g. personal insults) their comments stand, unlike other online platforms. They can actually be really quite nasty and insulting up to a point. They can operate on broadcast without engaging properly.

We've seen all this in triplicate over the past few days.

It's a safe space. That's why they're drawn to it over and over. They cannot keep away.

IANAL, but-

It's the offence of 'Intentionally or recklessly causing public nuisance' if a person:
obstructs the public or a section of the public in the exercise or enjoyment of a right that may be exercised or enjoyed by the public at large, and

(c)the person intends that their act or omission will have a consequence mentioned in paragraph (b) or is reckless as to whether it will have such a consequence.
Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022

Couldn't it be argued that women have the right to enjoy the single-sex spaces designated for them, and a man who enters a women's toilet either intending to deny that right, or reckless as to the consequences of his presence, is causing a public nuisance?

If he refused to leave when challenged, even moreso!

I don't know if you've spent too much time on this forum or if you're just being disingenuous?

But obviously, trans women believe they are women. So, they think biological men who believe they are women should be allowed, and biological men who believe they are men should not be allowed. Am I missing something? That seems really obvious

Also I see what you're trying to say, but patriarchy is a system, and men absolutely are also victims of it. In different ways and to a different extent. But an individual man is not 'the patriarchy'.

Who are you addressing?

I agree that there are male posters who show a distinct wish for humiliation in their posting history. They post something that they know will be shown to be false and in a serious style post. Not overtly goading. They keep doing it.

Then there are the ones who do it just to get a reaction because they want attention and think it is funny to goad women.

I think too though, that we are sometimes test subjects where they test out whether their argument is in any way convincing. It never is though. But I think they believe they are posting some brand new take that we have never seen before. It is that level of thinking from them.

It is always really noticeable that the anger and frustration escalates really quickly. Recent posters have done it. Butters did it. A couple of posts in and they realise they're not getting anywhere, they need to produce evidence, we're not convinced, we're not giving an inch. And the rage ramps up.

Don't forget the performance part, there's a lot of it that's about showing off, competing with one another as to who makes the best women. It's why they hate women because there's no competing with us, we win hands down, it's a disadvantage they can never overcome, because no matter how good a performance they can never win against a women. And they know it, which makes it even worse for them because they know it.

The OP

Try quoting the person you're replying to next time to prevent confusion.

But obviously, trans women believe they are women.

They don't believe they are female-bodied (mostly).

They can only believe they are women IF they change the definition of the word "women" to something (they won't ever say what, because they don't want to communicate it clearly) that would exclude many female people who don't fit that criteria.

They know full well it's sexist, exclusionary and usually homophobic to think that there's a certain personality type or "brain" that makes someone "really" a woman.

That's why they will never elaborate on what a woman is.

There is also this childish determination to characterisation that we are all either ‘conservative’ or ‘far right’.

It is tribalism and it is not a mature thought process. I actually laughed last night at the accusations. But I also laughed that a man thought that would upset me. It is like they have spent too much time in an echo chamber where people would find that an immediate accusation to silence discussion or to stop a thought.

Whereas I could not give a fuck to be accused of being a ‘conservative’. Seriously, who gives a fuck. I have had ‘nazi’ screamed in my face for hours while standing in a line to protect other women, by men who told us all they were women.

I laughed then too. And explained to the copper who was watching the interaction with puzzlement that I was laughing because the stream of accusations were so far from the truth that it didn’t even make logical sense.

So, some man telling me I am a tool of Trump/patriachy/far right and that I am a conservative is just as stupid as an accusation as having ‘Nazi’ screamed at me by a group of masked men telling us they are women from a metre and a half away.